26. Budgeting - Let's Stop Pretending there is a Holy Grail

There are so many resources out there, showing you how to manage your money. Be it the envelope system, 50/30/20, pay yourself first. Here are the cafe, we've tried them all!

One thing that isn't talked about when this topic comes up, is how it "feels" to use these methods. That's what we're going to talk about in this episode. If you've ever tried one of these methods and it didn't work for you, it doesn't mean you're bad with money! It just wasn't the right one for you. We'll share how we manage our money and what we've learned along the way.

For some of us, giving every £ a job absolutely works. But for others, it can leave us feeling anxious and stressed. We would invite you to treat all of the different methods as a pick and mix, and go with what works for you. And be prepared for that to change over time, that's certainly been our experience.

5.05  Emily's method - spreadsheets

6.17  The foundation of Julie's method - a bill's account

7.52  Save on a weekly or monthly basis? One annoys Julie, the would send Michelle into a panic

10.53  What worked for you in your 20s might not be helpful as you get older 

13.19  To cash or not to cash? Ignore conventional wisdom, and check in with how you feel about spending actual physical cash!

19.34  Where to start if you haven't found a plan that works for you?

26.38  Planning your savings, how to build the habit

35.23  How being goal orientated helps Emily with her money

 YOUR HOSTS:
Julie Flynn is an experienced independent financial adviser and financial coach. Justice and equality drive Julie. Which is why she’s spent years studying and researching how stress affects our financial decision making.

She uses her years of experience and research to support women experiencing or planning significant change in their lives. 

Julie is best known for her work with women who have lost their partner and coaching financial services business who want to implement fair and transparent charges.

Financial coaching - Ebb & Flow Financial Coaching
Financial advice - Bree Wealth & Tax
Julie’s inexpert social media antics - Instagram

Michelle Lambell  started her career in financial services as a Stockbroker in 1999 undertaking both advisory and discretionary investment management. Following a career break where she spent time being a mum and running an arts and crafts business, Michelle returned to financial services in 2013 undertaking further study.

Today she is a Chartered Financial Planner, specialising in retirement planning advice, pensions and investments and a Certified Financial Coach. Michelle has a passion for providing financial advice, guidance and education to everyone, regardless of their gender, age or current circumstances.
Website | Instagram

Emily Pool is a Financial Planner and Will Writer and Founder of Happy Planet Financial Planning and is passionate about empowering people to invest their wealth (pensions and savings) sustainably and in line with their personal values.

Transcript

WMC 26 Budgeting

Julie: [00:00:00] welcome to the women and money cafe. The weekly, money podcast for women by women exploring the practical and emotional side of money. The cafe, isn't just a podcast. It's a community for women to feel financially. And have fun along the way, come and join us in our Facebook group too, with your hosts, Julie Flynn and myself, Catherine Thomas Humphreys, Julie is an independent financial advisor and certified financial coach.

She works with women where life has taken an unexpected turn to help them manage their money with confidence and it confess it and new futures. And I am the founder of the influencer qualified financial advisor, coach and family finance expert. I help parents to financially empowered that family and create positive relationships with money themselves.

And those they love.[00:01:00]

It feels like the internet and social media is full of information on how you should be budgeting and planning your money on a monthly basis. And in today's episode, we want to challenge that thinking because we don't believe there's any absolute one way that you should be doing things with your money. I think all these different approaches, what might suit one person isn't going to suit another?

So, today myself, Emily and Michelle, we're going to be sitting around just kind of chatting about the emotional impact of the different budgeting methods you get. So be that really forensic spreadsheets or like some version of the envelope system, just talking through how one might work for one person.

And what might have worked for you back in your twenties might not work for you in your thirties or forties. And it was really just to kind of lift the veil on this whole idea of budgeting and just take a deeper look at it and just see what [00:02:00] works for you. So as always, we hope you enjoy the show. If you disagree with this, or you've got some thoughts or comments then did get in touch, because we'd love to hear from you.

And this episode, we're going to talk about budgeting, spending, plan, whatever you want to call it. Okay. But we're not talking about the mechanics of how you do it because there's plenty of resources out there that are going to talk you through how to manage your money. We'll probably share information about them as we go along.

But what we do want to do today is talk about how you manage your money on a weekly or a monthly basis and the methods you use and how that makes you feel. Because what we've found from the clients that we work with is sometimes people are using a method that doesn't make them feel good. And it's understanding there is not a holy grail, which is the perfect budgeting method. And if you follow that, your dreams will [00:03:00] come true. As I think personally, it's a case of pick and mix and learning as you go along and just being aware of, if you tried one thing and it doesn't work, it doesn't mean you're bad at money or you've failed.

It just means that wasn't the right one for you. So hopefully today, we're going to give you some hints and tips on how to walk into that woolworth's of budgeting methods and go for the pick and mix budget, a method that suits you. All right. So that's what we're doing today. I'm joined by Michelle and Emily.

Good morning, Michelle. How are you? I'm good. Thank you. I know. Emily. How are you? Good. Thank you. All right. So I was just sort of positioning it the, I think the way the, this whole idea of budgeting and spending plans or whatever you want to call it, the way it's positioned with people sometimes I don't think it's terribly helpful the way it comes across as a bit absolute.

So I thought it would be interesting because we are all three financial professionals with [00:04:00]many, many, many years experience. Of managing other people's money. We'll find out how we do it for ourselves. And that it'd be interesting to kind of share what we've learned about budgeting and spending plans over the years and what's worked and what hasn't worked.

So I don't know Michelle, do you want to kick us off? 

Michelle Lambell: Yeah, no. And I think this is a fascinating subject because as you say, as professionals, people think we know exactly what we're doing, and I'll be honest with you when it comes to ourselves. We dont really. Because we are a bit hit and miss.

Sometimes I think we all think that, you know, at the beginning there is a holy grail out there and we can follow it and it'll do it. But I know from experience, it doesn't work. They don't all work for me. I've tried a few different things. Some do some don't. I'm more paper-based I have to say, ingand I try and write it all down, but then I give up about a month later because I'm fed up with doing that really.

Julie: All right. What about you, Emily? What have you, [00:05:00] what's your general sort of take on the overarching idea of budget? 

Emily Pool: Yeah, I think it really helps to break it down into, short term, medium term, long term, and you probably need a budget for all of them, but I suppose the more granular one will be the short term, because you just need to know that you can be paying your bills as and when they fall due and that you've not got a massive, surprise coming your way.

And so that you've got that, but yeah, I use a spreadsheet. I don't really do paper cause I'm terrible for misplacing bits of paper. So I have been known of course, to misplace, electronic spreadsheet files as well. But, yeah, I do find it a bit easier to use a spreadsheet and obviously then there's no calculation involved and hopefully know so long as you've got your formulas, right? There's no, scope for human error, either in calculation. 

Julie: you need to listen to the episode with Martha [00:06:00] Lawton on managing your money with ADHD, , because she's got a top tip for misplacing your spreadsheets. There is you said something that made me think about the best piece of financial advice I've ever had.

I was 19, and it's from a Lloyd's bank manager and she sat me down. She said, Julie, you need to understand that you're a spender. Okay. So what you need is you need to make sure the money for your bills is taken care of before you spend. Interesting I'm not a spender anymore. What she did, she set up a separate bank account for me and all my bills and all my direct debits go out that. So at the start of the month, as soon as I get paid, I know that my bills are X pounds per month. That money goes straight out of my current account and it goes into my bills accounts. I still run with that [00:07:00]method to this day, I've tried, I've tried to hundreds of different ways of doing the money, but that is that's the corner stone of my financial planning spending for the month. So does anybody else do that?

I Do. That's something that I was taught and I was also, and I am still with Lloyd's bank. So it must be something that they, they did now I, I still run with that cause I feel it just lets me know what's free money, and what's not taken. And then alongside that, I have other little pots, which I put aside for Christmas or holidays or each of my children, and a little bit goes into that every week.

Michelle Lambell: So even though I'm paid monthly, it goes in every week. And the reason for that is I don't really notice it. So a little bit drifts off each week and it just sort of builds up in the background. And then if I am looking for money, there's generally a pot there that I can access. 

Julie: All right. We're getting right into the nitty-gritty straight away here.

So you've got your spaces there. The money goes over [00:08:00] in there. I think you and I run our money quite similarly, because I've got my Starling spaces for things like Christmas, holidays, birthdays, summer. What have you. And I tried that, where it went weekly and it just did my head in. Because I could look at my bank one day and I think, alright, I've got X and that, and then money was magically disappearing or like, okay, hang on a minute.

So I changed that. I just have it all going at the start of the month. So all my bill money from the bills goes off to a bank account, all my regular saving go out straight away. And then whatever's left is mine to play with.

Michelle Lambell: I think psychologically I couldn't do that because suddenly there was a big drop at the beginning of the month, whereas we're doing it each week for me, it's a bit like if I've popped up to Tesco's and bought some bits and just drifted off to another account.

So I don't notice it really. I think my, my comfort level of seeing that drop at the beginning of the [00:09:00] month, would have me in a bit of a bit of a panic, 

Julie: ah, right. That's interesting because before we, before we pressed the record button folks, we were talking about this. I say I tried a hundred, one different ways to manage my money.

And I did go through that really sort of. So I went a bit made with the Starling spaces, I probably had about 20 spaces. So I had one for take away, one for food, one for clothing, one for shopping. And so everything got moved into there at the start of the month. And it left a really small amount in the main bank balance.

And that started to cause me anxiety. And I didn't like it, but the, the rationale for doing it that way to start with was I spending too much on takeaway. I tried to make myself more mindful. This is you're lockdown. And I was trying to make myself more mindful of what I spent, but having it all, like you said, Michelle, having it all disappear to start the month.

And I've only got maybe a couple of hundred pound floating around in my bank account. I didn't like that! No. So I [00:10:00] stripped down my spaces, they've all been archived and I've just kept like what I would call, almost like fun spaces. Yeah, they're not all fun. I've got house insurance space. That's definitely not so fun. 

Emily Pool: That's not fun, a very boring one, but very necessary.

Julie: Yeah. But it's about how we feel.

Michelle Lambell: Yeah, and I think it is, it is a level of security, isn't it? I think we've got that level that we need to see around us. I mean, I must admit mine are all on one app, so my banking app, I can go in and I can see my current account. I can see my second current account and then I can see all my little sort of pots underneath.

So when I scroll through, I think I have this sort of security that, oh, the money is there. It may not be in that one, but it is all that. And it's just having access to them and knowing that I can sort of switch them around if I want to. 

Julie: Okay. So has that changed from how you maybe did things 20 years ago, Michelle?

Michelle Lambell: Oh, definitely. I think [00:11:00] I was at the point where things would go in, things would come out in the month. I didn't really have an idea of when they were coming out, what was happening and, and it was difficult. I think you then get into the realms of overdraft and bits like that. And it makes you feel very uncomfortable.

And I think I've also been through a situation where I was, I got divorced and I was a single mom of two children and I didn't have much money and I had to then revert to cash, really. Because I needed to make sure I could be really, really strict with what I was spending. So I put money aside each week and that's what I would use each week.

I very rarely used my bank card because it just made me feel in control. I didn't want to lose control. That was quite a scary place to be.

Julie: All right. So what you've described there as most, I think traditionally known as the envelope method. Yeah. And that's what kind of was the starting point for us doing this episode, as we've got one of the listeners [00:12:00] who their background is, they never had a lot of financial security.

They've never had a lot of money and they've always had to be really specific with a budget they have for everything each week and now that they're a little bit more financially secure and that extreme budgeting method just makes them feel anxious. So, whereas in the past it didn't make them feel anxious and it was, it was necessary for their financial survival.

Now that they've got a little bit more money and they're a little bit more comfortable, it's interesting that the same method doesn't work for them anymore. It doesn't feel good. Can you relate to that? 

Michelle Lambell: I think I can. Cause I think you, at the time, whether there is lower resources around you need that control, that that helps you feel in a better place.

But I think when you've got a bit more that's when psychologically your thinking changes about spending, because, you know, you can do some other things and again, it's about having control, but to suit your [00:13:00] life at that point in time, I now couldn't do what I did because I do feel it was far too restrictive and I just don't think it would help me psychologically.

Yeah, but I think we change as we go through life. Don't we it's how your financial situation changes. 

Julie: what your thoughts Emily? 

Emily Pool: I'm finding it interesting that Michelle did go to that cash based method. and it's not something I've ever been really comfortable with, cash. I don't know why.

And I literally had never have any cash now at all. And I think during COVID, I think that became even more so because lots of people stopped wanting to take cash. but yeah, I don't know what it is. I have definitely a psychological blocker when it comes to having the physical cash in my purse.

I think I'm, maybe I'm worried it's going to get lost stolen. I don't quite, [00:14:00] I think it can just go too quickly. And I know you can say the same as the money on the card, but, I think I do keep a little mental tally in my head, as I'm going through spending or cause, and actually it's having your phone with you all the time with your banking app, you can check any moment.

I mean, it's unbelievable that I will cause I've got lots of different business accounts as well. Type businesses. And I'll go to the post office, knowing that there'll be a queue and I'll know, I won't have enough money in my main part of my account to pay for the stamps I'm about to buy, but I know I've got time just to like log on flicker over by the time I get to the front of the queue, the money will be there and hopefully it will.

Julie: But yeah, I just. Easy for me to do it that way. but cash, I just, yeah, there's something about it. Just a little bit psychologically blocked. 

 that that is the perfect example of why it isn't a one size fits [00:15:00] all Emily isn't it because like you've got, I'm pretty sure the so-called gurus will say, you know, cash only spend cash.

It makes you more mindful, blah, blah, blah. But what you were saying that it's actually used in your card makes you more like. And cash actually makes you having cash on. You actually makes you feel a little bit anxious. 

Emily Pool: Yeah. I mean, I'm logging into my banking app on a daily basis sometimes more than once a day, you know?

And also I get the notifications up too that says, oh, you've got a direct debit coming out tomorrow. Oh, okay. Just check that I've moved the money across for that. So I'm a bit reactive about it, but then I've got the things in place that will notify me that, um, that these things are happening. So I'm just, I'm on it. I'm just reactively on it, right? 

Julie: No, that sounds good. I think, I think that's what it is. I just wanted to challenge all the conventional thinking on how we budget and how we plan on spending. And you know, one of that is one of the things that some [00:16:00] people say is just spend, use cash for things. But how viable is that in the 21st

century?

Michelle Lambell: It's not really far, but don't think because this is a mini sort of say, during the pandemic, we were all discouraged from yeah. Cash. and I think we don't as a society, generally use cash anymore. And a lot of shops, some of them still won't accept cash. I've got some near me that still won't have cash.

It is car payments only. So I think it's, it's not an easy thing to do. I think when I was in the point where I was using cash, it was sort of 10 years ago. So it was a bit different. Whereas now, and also children nowadays don't really know what cash is to be fair. They walk around with their card on their phone.

I mean, mine don't even take their physical card with them. It's, it's just their card on their phone. And for me, that's still quite alien. I still have to have my card with me. There's something, maybe it's our age thing. I'm not quite sure. 

Julie: Occasionally when I've had to do it with my phone hours after ask the person that they tell I I've got my phone, what do I [00:17:00] do with it?

Michelle Lambell: I'm the same. I asked my daughters,

Julie: well, we have a lot of fun running the cafe. The reason we do it is to reach as many women as possible to empower them around. So if you know, a woman that would benefit from feeling financially empowered, you can help us to help them by sharing this episode with them.

Emily Pool: The worst thing during the, the COVID. Pandemic is when you have to wear a mask, isn't it. And you go into the shop and you've got your face recognition. You're this close to the card machine. And you're having to, you know, do, do the phone on the card machine, your face in front of the phone, and then hoping that the person behind the counter is not getting too worried about you being too close.

It's quite hilarious. Really sign at the times, hopefully gone now that we don't have to wear the mask, touch wood, 

Julie:

and it's not even that it's just our spending habits. How much of our shopping do we do online. That's not feasible with cash. [00:18:00]

Michelle Lambell: No. I mean all my food shopping's online and that is actually one way that I can track my food, shopping, what I'm spending much easier because I sit there and I know exactly what that's going to cost me rather than going to the shop, wandering around and thinking, oh, we'll have that this week, or we'll have this and getting to the teller and actually not knowing what figures about to pair and if, if I'm doing it, and I think that's an orphan.

You know, and we do have some bits here. You can take out, you can tailor it to what you want, whereas in the shop, he just arrived at you at the checkout and this bigger magically appears. And sometimes you see people go.

I scan as I go around. So that's the kind of middle, middle path on it. Isn't it it's that.

Emily Pool: So you either go into the shop physically and you get a surprise, you sit at home and you do it online and you know exactly what you're doing. Then you can amend it, et cetera, or, you know, you do the scanning in the suit tomorrow. And, um, you then [00:19:00] hopefully are aware of what it is you spending. Cause I have a budget in mind when I go and that, and if it get to the end and I think I've, I've spent a bit, but take out one of those 10 bottles of wine, but not really that bad, but yeah, you take out the things obviously that are not as important.

Yeah. 

Julie: Okay. So we've kind of touched upon how almost like if we call it extreme budget, Can make you feel anxious and isn't necessarily helpful for you. Obviously I think some kind of plan for your money for the month is a good idea. So if someone's listening to this and they're like, okay, that extreme budgeting and having, and recording everything I spent, that's really not for me.

Where would you suggest they start? What would you say would be a nice, easy place to start? We're just starting to have a plan for your money for the month. 

Michelle Lambell: I think a lot of the banking apps now actually allow you to look at what you're spending and they break it down into [00:20:00] areas. You know, as much as they can.

And I think having a look at that as a starting point, if you don't want to sit and write something, you don't want to use a spreadsheet, you don't want to use an app. You can go in and look and see where you're spending. And it's about becoming aware of your spending habits. And actually just by doing that, you may think, oh, I'm spending an awful lot of money on takeaways.

I'm spending an awful lot of money on, on food shopping that maybe you're throwing away a lot of food, but it just brings that awareness. And I think the awareness. Ki to then having more control of your money. So even if you don't want to go into that scary space yeah. Determining what's going to go where it just gives you spending awareness and allows you to then prioritize actually, what is more important to me?

Emily Pool: I remember it at the beginning of COVID it's locked down. Um, one of our, our ladies in the office, um, because she'd had her hours cut. She was getting her, um, what'd you call it the [00:21:00] payments top-up payments from, from Rishi. Gosh, time has moved on. I can't even remember all these, this terminology. But, um, she was, she had money had been cut and so she was having to go through her finances and work out exactly where her money was going.

And the word that she used was what I word I used. And she said, yeah, you're absolutely right. And I said, you know, you don't realize it, but some of the amount of money you're spending on certain frivolous things is really very obscene. Um, and it can be, and it's amazing the emotions that will come up for you when you actually look at how much you're spending.

I mean, Julie mentioned takeaways earlier. I mean, we don't want to be killed joys here. Obviously. Takeaway is a lovely thing to have occasionally, but sometimes. If you don't realize just how much you're spending on it, it might make you realize, you know, not only the money aspect being too too much, but also perhaps might be a lifestyle change that you want to make as well.

So I'm not judging you here, but you know, this, this, this thing, [00:22:00] um, a friend of mine looked at how much she was spending on magazines and magazines is absolutely a, you know, a luxury item, lovely to have. But if you're struggling to, to pay what you need to pay over at the supermarket, um, checkout, then perhaps the magazines can be taught.

So awareness is key. 

Julie: I think it's a really valid point. You make there. Emily? My, my takeaway bill was a reflection of my inability to look after. Well, yeah,

Emily Pool: it's amazing what it will throw up for you when you do this granular. 

Julie: Yeah. And that's why I love like Michelle, you were mentioned the banking apps when they start categorized and all your spending.

That's what gave me the wake up call on my, my takeaway about, um, I think moms are what don't think any of us are Monzo users, but believe Monzo can get really, really deep in the budgeting. So, what it will allow you to do is tag different spending categories and you set a budget for that category. [00:23:00] And once you've hit it, so it's not letting you have it anymore until you go in and change your tags.

Michelle Lambell: But it brings awareness again, though, doesn't it? It's allowing you to see when you're going over that. And I think, as we said, budgeting can cause anxiety, but also. You know, having a budget in place or having some kind of control in place reduces your anxiety as well. 

Julie: Yes. It sounds like it's about figuring out where you are right now and what's going to cause you the least anxiety.

Yeah, 

Emily Pool: I've just been on a skiing holiday. Um, and we've just, you know, there were, I think my about seven families of us in total and, um, we had an amazing, this amazing app. I don't know if you've heard of it called Splitwise. I mean, this is obviously something that works on a group basis where you wanted to split bills, but it just took the stress out of things.

Um, because on previous holidays you kind of got the [00:24:00] impression, there's always somebody getting to the bar first, and then you were feeling guilty or, you know, you were counting how many people around and you were working out or was this fair? You know, you, you know, Not be relaxing into the holiday cause you're too worried about that element of it.

But Splitwise is amazing because you, you put in, um, the amount that you spent, do you get the distribution of where it's been spent so that you can remember? Oh yeah, I was in that bar. I think I was, I did have that tequila. But then you allocate then you, and then you just say, who was there in the, in the round or at the restaurant.

And then it's all allocated against that person. It's split down, you know, equally, but there was an ability to adjust the weightings. If you, if you felt that somebody hadn't drunk as much as you or something, but generally we didn't do that. We just asked at all, and at the end of the day, The week, you, you press a button to settle up and it just tells you, and it simplifies the payments as well.

So as, rather than me paying six other people, um, I'll just maybe pay [00:25:00] one or two and basically it will even out. So everybody does end up paying exactly their share. Brilliant. 

Julie: I loved it.

Yeah. As a, as genius, it remains me of the night, Catherine and I went out one night, with, Carol, I think we've touched upon this.

It might have been one of the clubhouse rooms. So we gone for a night out and it got to that bit where the bell arrives at Tom's open all the same, where we hate when people get really detailed. Yeah. I'm trying to be delicate. You know what I mean? You know what I mean, folks and the young waitress in the restaurant, she had a great tip for us.

I love your app, Emily. She's like get a separate food and a separate alcohol bill. Yeah. When you're out for a meal, like, oh, where have you been? All my life? But yeah, no, I've heard the split wise as well. Emily said all these things, right. And I just got to take the friction out of it are good. Okay. So what we've touched upon so far as the trying to identify which way of doing it causes you [00:26:00]stress and anxiety and where you may want to tweak it.

, we touched on some of the different methods. Now what's popped into my head is Michelle, you were saying at the start, but how you do your split? Um, and how you do your species on a weekly basis. Yeah, but I don't like that because it does my head in, but what has come to me now and I'm going to throw this out because I think there should be part of your spending plan is that I've not always been really very, very good at saving.

Cause the bank manager told me if it was in my current account, I'm allowed to spend it. So I ran with that idea. And then I got into the habit a few years ago of like properly saving and that I did like getting done on a weekly basis. So I'm trying to think that. So you had apps like chip and what have you that came out where it just starts to randomly.

It's an. That just steals money out of your account, that it thinks you can afford, and it goes and [00:27:00] sticks and a savings account for you. Have you heard of this 

Michelle Lambell: chip? I've not heard of check. ,

Yeah, I know my well. So with the bank that I'm where they do do where everything I spend in my current account, they round up to a pound and that extra bit goes into my savings account. So again, that sort of drip feeds it across. And I think the saving is a key part to it. You know, I think is what is clearing all our bells.

It is, it is having that money put away. Um, but I think it's clever if it can be done. Stealth. I think stealth saving is amazing because you don't realize it's actually happening. 

Yeah. That's interesting. 

Julie: Cause we were talking about, you were talking about how things have changed for you over time.

Michelle, that's just made me think how things have changed for me just in the space of a few years, because if you told me to see if a couple of hundred pounds each month, oh, I don't want to deliver. But that's how I started. I started with the algorithm, sneaking small [00:28:00] amounts of money out my account.

And what I think is obviously done as it's built up my tolerance and my confidence in my ability to. 

Michelle Lambell: Yeah. 

I've got friends who I've suggested it to. And they look at me as though I've just said the strangest thing ever. And they say, well, why would you want to do that? It's small amounts of money. And you think, well, it's small amounts that build up over time.

But as you say, if I haven't missed it at that point, it's fine. So actually, before. I could get away with missing a bit more because I wouldn't notice. And I think that's how all my little pots are built up because I just actually, every six months I increase all the monthly payments that go to those pots.

I don't do it by very much, but I just do a little bit to each one and then it gradually creeps up. So I'm not noticing because it's not a big glaring figure flashing at me going, I'm leaving your 

Julie: account with sirens going and its flashing and red. Yeah. You know, and 

Emily Pool: I think that's your fun money and I'm going, [00:29:00]

Michelle Lambell: but it does give me the security.

I know if I ever need to access money, there is always going to be something that I can go to. And if that wasn't there, I know that would cause me a huge amount of anxiety. 

Julie: Yeah, now, I think that's really interesting. Just reflected on what I've done. That it is, is about it's taking this time. You're starting to embed a new habit.

Yeah. And it's doing it in small incremental steps because I think initially chip maybe took 12 P off me, and then you could set it to different levels. So you could, you could be a really aggressive saver or you could just be a low saver. And so I ramped it right up, so it's taking 17 ound at a time.

This would maybe happen once or twice a week. And it's just that confidence of realizing that I can do that. So now I can at start the start of the month commit a couple of hundred pounds to be saved. And I think it's that it's about, it's just a starting slowly, starting [00:30:00] to. 

Yeah, 

Emily Pool: definitely for me automating it in the beginning.

If you're not used to it yet, it does help small amounts automating it. So you don't need to set. And then, um, I think the other thing is, um, when you do get, say a pay rise or. An extra chunk of money or saving, maybe you've just finished repaying, a loan or something, um, to take that and use that. So that, that isn't noticed it's not something you've had before.

Um, it's available now. So take it away, put it into savings and then you won't notice 

Julie: there. But 

I love that. I can remember going back when I worked for legal in general, when I had a proper job, I got a pay raise and I looked at the pay raise and thought, okay, I'm going to be a grownup now and I'm going to do something sensible with it.

And I think 50% of it went on critical illness cover, and I kept the rest of it for myself to enjoy each month. And it was like any time I've had finance friends. So like, [00:31:00] you know, you get interest refinance on super small, happier, or like, my car will start money. Stop. Getting having to be repaid. Then I take that money and I give that money another job.

So I know you get this, every, give every pony to practice. I'm not really dead into that. I like some of my money not to have any purpose because that's what works for me. But when it's something like that, I will do it. So I think what was it? I think it probably built my MacBook on the interest ricotta.

And then when that finished. I think it was, let's say it was 150 pound a month that just then got directed off into my ISA. 

Michelle Lambell: Yeah. Because you're not going to miss it. Are you? Because you're used to it going and I think that's the, that's the thing with doing, building up slowly or just repurposing money that was used for something else, because you don't need tests.

You were saying about the 17 pound on chip. You could. To the shop and go and buy a bottle of wine and some bits, you know, for the weekend that's 17 pounds. You wouldn't think [00:32:00] twice about that. I'm 

Julie: having to spend the whole 17 pound. And by the way, Michelle, I'm super fussy about my body. And I think, I think there's been touched upon in the past.

I can get back I'm high maintenance on the way for Blaine front. So Emily, I'm just curious. Because we're all roughly the same age. I'm just wondering how maybe you do your money differently. No. To how you maybe did it? 10, 20 years ago. Five years ago, even. 

Emily Pool: Yeah. Um, 20 

years ago. So do the mess. Um, I would have been 26.

Wow. Oh my goodness. My twenties. Yeah. I was not at all in my twenties. Um, Uh, I was earning a good salary in the city, but I was living life and, uh, the money we just went. So I had very little savings, really I'm spending every penny. Um, but then I tell you what, what was revolutionary, um, was where I basically had a backward saving plan [00:33:00] because.

I decided I wanted to buy a flat and I'm running on one of those Jamey people who my parents were fortunately able to help me out with that with the deposit. I did have to pay them back. Every penny that I borrowed for that deposit. And so I then had to very drastically find, I don't know what it was 300 pound a month or something from my savings that had all been fun money.

Um, Start repaying them. Sorry, my dog is whining, but I'm sure he can be part of the podcast. Please. Don't edit him out. He said, lastly. Um, yeah, so I, yeah, I had this backward savings plan really where I had to repay my parents 30,000 pounds over three years. Um, And I think that actually though did give me a massive amount of discipline and obviously then being a homeowner, paying the mortgage, paying the bills.

Um, yeah, it, it made me grow up very 

Julie: quickly. What's the dog's name? Emily 

Emily Pool: say, and he's wanting to say hello, 

Julie: welcome to the show, [00:34:00] Percy. It's nice to have you with us. We are a pet-friendly. Everybody's welcome. Yeah, isn't it interesting how we, we learn these lessons as we go through life and different ways to manage my anger.

You look back at the things and you think about, I wish I'd done that differently. Um, so just curious then if we've got people that are lessening and they've tried different budgeting methods and the. I can't do that. It's not for me. I was just wondering what, what would you say to those people? So, Michelle, 

Michelle Lambell: I think, I would say just.

Continue to explore and do what feels right. If it doesn't feel right, do don't try and persevere. It can take a while for the things to sort of processes, to sink in if that's what you're doing, but just try. There's so many different types of budgeting ways out there, or even just having awareness, like we said earlier of what you're [00:35:00] spending, that's a good starting place.

And often it will snowball from there because you'll get that awareness and then you get curiosity and you lead you further into it, but don't give up on it fully. But don't be, you know, driven by it. Just allow it to happen naturally and find what suits you. 

Julie: All right. Well, by yourself, Emily, 

Emily Pool: I would maybe sort of.

Get quite sort of endpoint focused and remind yourself what it is you're saving it for, because if it is a holiday or if it's, you know, to pay the S some university education for children or it's to, to upgrade your house, you know, do the equivalent of, you know, the skinny model in her bikini on the fridge, stick a photo of that dream holiday or that, um, beautiful house to get some.

And just, yeah, every time you find it hard or every time you attempted to stick a load of random things into the Amazon basket that you don't need. [00:36:00] Just look at the photo and no, no, I need to stay on track here. This is what I'm aiming for. Um, and, and just, um, just try and, but don't beat yourself up about it a bit, a bit like being on a diet, sometimes those sort of cream cakes.

Sort of find their way to your mouth without you realize. And sometimes, you know, you'll slip up, but it doesn't mean that all is lost and you can still get back on track. That's what I would say. Yeah. Keep, try and keep 

Julie: focus. 

I think that's fantastic advice, Michelle and Amy, thank you for that. I think basically what I'm taking from this is what you do with your money on a monthly basis or a weekly basis, or however you choose to manage it, you should be feeling impacted.

By the choices that you've made and if the way of doing it, doesn't leave you feeling empowered. Then it's maybe tend to experiment with some different methods. And you know, the three of us we've been doing this for a while and we, we don't believe, I think I speak on behalf of all of us when I say we don't [00:37:00] think there's one way to.

No, 

Emily Pool: no, no. Try lots of different things. See what 

Michelle Lambell: works. 

Julie: Ah, so it doesn't mean that you're doing money wrong or you're bad with money. It's just the way you're doing it. Right. Nervous and ready for you. So go experiment and we would love to hear what experiments you you've. You've dabbled with them, what successes you've had.

All right, ladies. Great, Emily, thank you very much for joining us today. Nice to have seen you. Alright. And Michelle. 

Michelle Lambell: Thank you very much 

Julie: lovely to be here. All right. I am. We'll look forward to chatting with you again in the next episode.

Thank you for listening to the women in many cafes with Julie flan and myself, Catherine Thomas complex. While we have a lot of fun run in the cafe, the reason we do. It's to reach as many women as possible to empower them in and around money. So if you know a woman that would benefit from feeling financially empowered, you can help us to help them by sharing the show.

There's nothing we love more than hearing about the changes you've made. So please drop us a voice note and [00:38:00] share@helloatwomenandmoney.cafe. We'd love to hear from you. You've just been listening to our financial chat, but please know that none of this constitutes personal financial. Please reach out to one of us or any of the other fantastic financial advisors in the UK for this 

Emily Pool: kind of specific 

Julie: help.