90. F##k Perfectionism - it keeps you poor with Laura Perkes

WARNING:  this episode contains strong language.
Our guest, Laura delves deep into the topic of perfectionism and its surprising connection to keeping people poor.

We look at how generational shifts and beliefs feed into perfectionism. And how it can consume us, especially when it came to balancing being a professional and a mother.

Laura and the rest of us at Women & Money Cafe agree: it's time to embrace our imperfections. Being human is enough, and striving for perfection only holds us back from achieving our financial goals.

Welcome back to another episode of Women & Money Cafe! In today's episode titled "F##k Perfectionism," we have the amazing and insightful Laura joining us. We stumbled upon Laura through a networking group and a Reddit post that caught our attention.

GUEST EXPERT: LAURA PERKES is a PR Strategist and Mentor to service-based business owners who are here to make an impact on the world, by sticking their middle finger up at the patriarchy and re-writing the rule book. Laura is also the author of the Amazon bestselling book, How To Get PR

Follow Laura on Facebook and Instagram

YOUR HOST

Julie Flynn is an experienced independent financial adviser and financial coach. Justice and equality drive Julie. Which is why she’s spent years studying and researching how stress affects our financial decision making.

Julie is best known for her work with women who have lost their partner and coaching financial services business who want to implement fair and transparent charges.
Ebb & Flow Financial Coaching | Bree Wealth & Tax | Instagram


CO-HOSTS
Emily Pool is a Financial Planner and Will Writer. She is passionate about empowering people to invest their wealth (pensions and savings) sustainably and in line with their personal values.


Michelle Lambell  started her career in financial services as a Stockbroker in 1999 undertaking both advisory and discretionary investment management. Today she is a Chartered Financial Planner, specialising in retirement planning advice, pensions and investments and a Certified Financial Coach. 

Sara Walker is a financial planner and financial coach with 33 years’ experience in financial services. She wants all women to feel financially confident and uses her professional and life experiences to support and educate women over 40 so they in turn feel able to support and be role models for the younger women in their lives.

Jennifer O'Neil is a mortgage and protection specialist and director of Athena Mortgages. Having been in the industry since 2014 Jennifer decided to set up a company in 2020 that suited her core values as a broker – integrity, service, honesty and continuous improvement.

Transcript

Julie [00:00:29]:

Welcome back to this episode of the women and money cafe with the slightly, sweary title. Now I know you're not shocked because it's not the time that we've done this, but we've got a guest with us today. And I'm going to I'm going to let her introduce yourself in a minute, but I need to explain how Laura ended up on our podcast. So I know Laura because we're in a similar networking group, and she put her post. I thought, oh my god. she so needs to come on our podcast. She was talking about the kind of things that she can talk about, and one of them was can I actually say it. I'm going to say it, F##k perfectionism. This is what this is the title of something Laura talks about. And so perfectionism keeps us poor. Oh my god. Her relevant is that to us. So let's get Laura on to chat about it. So I've given you that rather swear intro to Laura, would you like to just tell us a little bit more about yourself?

Laura [00:01:32]:

I can do. Hello, everyone, and apologies for no. Do you know what? I'm not going to apologize for the fact I have a potty mouth. Let's just own it. But I am a PR strategist and a mentor for predominantly female service based business owners who Know that they are here on this earth to do greater things than what they're doing and are maybe slightly jaded, sick, and tired, be it on the social media hamster wheel, but feel like there's no other way of raising awareness, getting their message out there, being visible. I am here to show that there is another way And that is by tapping into the power and potency of PR and mainstream media, which forces people to freak out, but I do it in a in a way that makes sense and in a way that feels good to you too because being visible can be a barrier.

Julie [00:02:40]:

Yeah. Alright. And that's interesting because I think just about everybody that listens to this podcast has discovered us because of social media. And that's because we've all been on the social media. Hamster wheel, as you described, I love that, by the way. And then again, I guess, there's a fair few of them that are also using it for their businesses, and they're like, yeah. I'm not really loving this. actually, I know that for a fact of some of them. So I'm hoping that over the next sort of 30, 40 minutes, you're going to share with us some of your great PR tests. But I think what I would really love to just start with is this where did this come from? This perfectionism keeps us poor? Talk to me about that.

Laura [00:03:20]:

So I will confess that I am very Taipei. I'm a high achiever, And I've also been a people pleaser, and I've just kind of gone through life. Always questioning if I've done enough. Not am I enough. Have I done enough? Could I have done more? And I've really had to work on that behaviour and that belief And you know what? If what if what I'm doing is all I can give, that's all I can give. That is enough. And There are times in my professional career when I've spent so long trying to get something perfect because I've not wanted somebody to think that I'm sloppy or scrappy or I'm not an expert or I'm not a credible business owner. that you end up getting pulled down a rabbit hole. And you know what? Nobody fucking cares. Nobody cares about this as an iPhone. in in your newsletter. Nobody cares if you put a picture of you up in your dressing gown on your Instagram feed because It's normal, and we're all normal human beings, and we're all doing normal things. But we're made to feel like we have to look a certain way and present ourselves in a certain way and be a certain size or shape or weight to be to be successful. And I'm like, oh, it's just it's just bullshit. So it's like, just show up as you are. And it's difficult. Okay? I haven't always been able to embrace who I am. I don't think I even knew who I was until my thirties. Now I'm forty, and I've said to people, I'm in my fucking era. I'm like, do you know what? If I offend you, I offend you, that is not my problem. If you believe that I could do more, that's your issue not mine. I'm just going to live my life and do what I want. And as long as it makes me happy and it brings me joy, the rest of you are relevant.

Julie [00:05:21]:

Oh my god. Okay. So I've got that excited about you, Laura, and your message. completely forgotten to introduce my co-host. So apologies. On this so far, we have been Laura today. This is Sarah. And, Sarah, you're giggling your head off. I'm thinking a lot of what Laura said is resonating with you.

Emily [00:05:42]:

Oh, yeah. Hi.

Sara [00:05:44]:

Yeah. I'm glad you love it. It certainly took me to my fifties love, so you're doing really well. Alright.

Julie [00:05:50]:

And at the other end of the sofa, I've got Emily with me as well. And, Emily, what's your take on this so far?

Emily [00:05:57]:

Look. It's like it's funny. I do you know what? You what everything you said is my inner voice. I don't know if I've ever said it, but, yeah, this is what I told myself, you know, what other people think of me as their business.

Julie [00:06:13]:

Yeah. Is that is that the only voice, Emily, in your head?

Emily [00:06:19]:

You know, actually, I must do a shout out anyway for a book that I'm reading at the moment, and it's called Limitless by a guy a very clever guy called Jim Kwik. Anyway, He says you've got a really annoying inner critic in your head, and he's stopping you from meeting a full potential. And you what you got to do is give him a really silly name and tell him to fuck off every now and then. So mine's called Keith. So Keith's the other voice in my head. I'll just turn to fuck off I said

Julie [00:06:47]:

-- Mine's called Macker Packer. People with children of a certain age will know what I'm talking about. Say that you got a voice in your head, and does it have a name? Yeah. She's called Betty. Bloody hell. It's all coming out now, aren't it, Laura? Voices in your head?

Laura [00:07:10]:

Yeah. But you know what? I've never actually named it because I've never wanted to give it that much power. I'm not naming it. I'm just going to tell you to fuck off whenever you pop up. No. You are not welcome here today.

Emily [00:07:23]:

I think the idea behind naming it is that you externalize it. So if it's if it doesn't have a name, then you're fooled into thinking it's you talking to you. It's not you talking to you. that annoying negative person over there. Yeah. It's interesting because my alter ego has a name.

Julie [00:07:43]:

Oh, tell us. Oh.

Laura [00:07:46]:

So, I guess, it's in a similar vein to Beyonce having Sasha face, If I'm ever when I know I need to put my big girl pants on, but the inner voice is stopping me. I unleash Lequisha And Laquisha is an absolute goddess. She's more than happy to turn up in her dressing gown and her fluffy slippers and ask for whatever she wants. She doesn't care about the outcome. She's asked. And she knows that if she just keeps asking for what she wants, at some point, she'll get it.

Julie [00:08:27]:

Oh, I love vest. Right. So I'm going to get a friend for Macka Packer. It's not Oxy Daisy. I'm going to go away and give this one some thought. Alright. So this is I knew this was going to be a good one, If I can tell us, then now you went to Julie. Yeah. You should. Okay. I'm going to give this I'm going to give it a lot of thought, and I will I will come back to you. I will share with the listeners. So come back. And before this is going to be a proper tangent episode, I can just tell. So you were saying, Laura, it was that realization that you the questioning yourself. Yeah. And so what changed for you?

Laura [00:09:06]:

years ago, and now that I'm on my 40 and the years just blur together, I don't remember how long ago. It was probably fairly early on in my kind of business owner journey. So we're probably be looking back 5, 6 years, maybe longer. Mhmm. And I don't want to kind of like to get the idea of, like, working with a coach, like a life coach. But nothing had really happened to lead me to 1. You know, there hasn't been any obvious trauma. There hasn't been any kind of break up or abuse. And it was almost like, I feel like there's something. I don't know what that something is, and it's not a big enough reason to kind of go and seek. the help and advice of someone else. And I joined the local networking group, and the lady who ran the group was a life coach. and I started having sessions with her. And that's when I started to realize. some of my behaviours. And I remember this one particular evening. It was a Friday night, and we were fostering a dog. So I think at the time, I had 2 dogs, and we're fostering this other dog. And that dog wasn't getting on with one of our other dogs, and they were fighting. And I had to pull them apart, and I got bitten, and it was just super stressful. So I ended up asking my parents to then look after this foster dog. So I've been felt responsible for this foster dog, so I've then I mean, to be fair, my parents live on the other side of the village. I'm not shlepping across halfway across the world. So I, you know, make the effort to go and visit my mom and dad and check they were okay with this dog and, you know, this this dog lunged at me. And then I was like, oh, god. I got to go home, and I got it bothered to cook. So I'm going to get a takeaway And I pulled up outside the chippy, and I phoned my husband because the queue was out the door. Like, how dare people be queuing for a cheap tea on a Friday night? And while I was on the phone, the guy whose car was parked in front of mine Started effing and jeffing at me. Now Whether this was Laquisha or the inner critic, I decided in that moment to wind my window down and confront the man with what the fuck do you think you're saying to me? What's your problem? Like, on like, honestly I mean, if there was ever a fight or flight situation, trust that I am going to fight. But this just kind of came out of nowhere. And he was like, you're part 2 close to me. And I was like, well, I didn't do it. I'm nervous. So by the time I've gone into the chippy and come home, like, I'm I wound up, like, tightly coiled spring. And I was relaying this story to the life coach, and she was like, Do you think that's acceptable behaviour? Oh. That didn't me. How did we? So we worked through it. And she was almost saying, you're taking on so much baggage from other people. You're taking responsibility for this dog that's not your dog. And because of a situation that's happened in your house, you've now ask your parents to look after this dog, but you still feel responsible for the dog, and then you also feel responsible for how your parents are caring for this dog. And then you're trying to do the good thing and pick ups and dinner for you and your husband, and that's winding you up. So when the bloke comes along and starts effing and Jeffing at you, That's because you felt disrespected. Respect is super high up on my kind of is it value values lever? I'm not really sure. the fact that he then started swearing at me for no reason. It was almost like, woah. We'll hold on a minute. But because I wasn't in a rational state of mind, because I was already wound up by the dog and the dog lunging at me, and then the tube being so long. And then I was a bit like, wow. Okay. So on? I'm willingly accepting other people's baggage and then getting frustrated at myself because I've got my own baggage, and now I'm accepting someone else's baggage. And I'm angry with the world, but I've made that decision. And it was just well, it was as if It was as if I could see this other version of Laura. And I was like, oh my god. You know, wonder why I behave like that. And I mean, still to this day, I can go from not to psycho, but I try not to pick that very often. I do I do try and kind of do the work to not get to that point. But, yeah, it was really I mean, when people say you need to hold the mirror up and look at yourself, my god. It is it is ugly. I think that's when I started to realize what was causing certain behaviours of mine and that I had to take responsibility for that because nobody else's fault with my own. And I think once you start to accept all parts of you, that's when you can start to become a better human being.

Julie [00:14:34]:

Alright. Well, thank you for sharing the entertainer story, I think, pattern enlightening story, but see what's taken me as you're talking to me about because I recognize elements of this where you're trying to be all things for all people all the time. and then this idea of perfectionism. Is this where you can get, like, a form of perfectionism that crosses over where you're trying to be perfect in all your relationships? And really, is this idea of what we think perfect is? Because a perfect relationship isn't about you know, always giving somebody what they want. It has to be about balance, doesn't it?

Laura [00:15:15]:

Yeah. And I think speaking your truth.

Julie [00:15:19]:

Right. So how then if we if we take that? because I think there's a I think a lot of people are going to relate to this, don't they? Hodes is the this kind of pattern of behaviour with the girls trying to be perfect and trying to be all things to all people. How's that affecting our money, Laura? if you want to take a minute because we've got we've got caused you to call. So, Emily, I was just wondering if you had wanted to come in with any thoughts at this point.

Emily [00:15:48]:

Yeah. I mean, I know a lot of friends who I would describe, and they would describe themselves as perfectionist. and frankly, they can be irritating because they can't see always see it. They can maybe notice it afterwards that they've been a bit funny, but in the moment, they don't. And I think I used to be a little bit like that in my younger days until I discovered Brene Brown. And I always remember a very poignant story that she told. I think it might have been in the first Brandy Brown, but I ever read. and it was about how she was staying up late at night to bash these cookies that she had to send in with her child into school the next day. And, obviously, the reason she was bashing them is because they were shop bought but she couldn't possibly have anyone think that she bought these cookies and that, you know, she wanted them to look home late. And I just thought, Jesus Christ. I'm the I have been this person at times, and I think it got worse when I had children. because not only then was I this you know, professional person, but I was also supposed to be really bloody good at being a mother as well. I remember sort of being, you know, 22 weeks postpartum inviting lay loads of people around to my house, and home baking 3 different cakes when my child was two weeks old. And all I wanted was, for all of my friends to say, what an amazing cake I'd made. I think I must have still been delirious from the birth, but I think once you realize some of these behaviours, You realize how absurd it is, and Laura is absolutely right. I mean, we're just human. What's wrong with being human? It's enough.

Julie [00:17:37]:

It's true. It's true. Laura, have you got your breath back yet after a little tickly cough? Yeah. Sorry.

Laura [00:17:47]:

And as well, actually, Emily, what were you were just saying? And I think a lot of what we we're taught is from our peers and from our family members. And then we end up taking this information forward. So And I'm sure our parents didn't mean us any harm, but I sometimes still feel like we're living as women to standards that were set in a very different era, in a very different time. And I haven't got children. through choice. And I see my friends and I see clients who are raising children who are running their own business, or they are working a corporate job, and they're just trying to do everything. And I'm just like, When did this happen? And I don't want to be all feminist and say,

Julie [00:18:58]:

You can be on this show, by the way. Right. We're all for that kind of carry on.

Laura [00:19:05]:

It's almost like we said we wanted it all, but because we can't do we all to a standard that we want? We then feel like the baby is. Yeah. We don't sit in a nutshell. Or we don't feel like we're good enough. or hold on a minute, or my grandma used to be able to raise 6 children. Yeah. But that's that was her job.

Emily [00:19:29]:

And then she probably had grandparents helping her. Yeah. Yeah. I think they could be faster than that one.

Laura [00:19:37]:

We're all we're all living longer, the retirement age is older. So, actually, if I was to have children now, my mom still works full time. My dad still works full time. Mhmm. I wouldn't have family around me to support me in the way that my nan would have been able to support my parents. And I think it's just this kind of fractured society of, like, women, you need to be the nurturers, and you need to raise the children. And if you're if there's something wrong with your child, you're the one that goes to the school. You're the one that picks them up in the emergency. And it's almost like but why? And I remember. Must have been about 2 years ago. And whenever our dogs needed to go to the vet, I was always failing the vet, and I was always taking the dog to the vet. And I just thought, why? Is it because I'm based at home? And I remember at one point, I did my income then got higher than Hayden. So I'd be like, well, I'm earning more money now, so you finish work early. you take the dog to the vet. Or why don't you book the appointment and make the appointment for when you finish work? because I thought it's always just because I'm at home, like, accepting parcels or people thinking that they can turn up on announce to half 11 in the morning.

Julie [00:20:57]:

It's like -- -- no.

Emily [00:20:58]:

So no. No.

Laura [00:21:00]:

This is my working hours. It's irrelevant that I've done no work today. You don't need to know that, don't they? Oh, but now I feel guilty because now I'm going to spend an extra 2 hours talking to you and not working. But then Obviously, that's my that's my issue to work through. But, yeah, I just think all these kind of expectations. I don't know who set them. I don't like them. I don't want I don't want to play the same thing. -- like you've rejected

Julie [00:21:28]:

them, Laura, quite firmly.

Emily [00:21:31]:

Yeah. Well, I think it's Keith telling me I've got to do this. Yeah. That's why I've got to tell him to f off. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the point, isn't it? It's like the that's a really good question. Who's telling you this?

Julie [00:21:45]:

Oh, yeah. Who's voices

Emily [00:21:47]:

His voice is it. Whose expectation

Julie [00:21:49]:

is it? And, actually, a lot of the time, it is your own, but you've kind of you like to blame someone and say I've got it from my mother or my grandmother or my you know?

Emily [00:21:59]:

Yeah. And maybe you have a little bit, but you are the one that's in control of your life And if you want to tell Keith to f off, tell him to f off. Yeah. Yeah. That's basically what any decent councillors starts and finishes with, isn't it?

Julie [00:22:15]:

Work out where the where it's coming from.

Emily [00:22:17]:

Work out what your in values are and tell the other one stay for.

Julie [00:22:20]:

Thank you. I just patronize my compassion. because that's me. So he walks around polishing rocks all day. Right? You can't really give a lot of credence to anything he's got to say, can you, when you take into that into account? Well, I think I just find this kind of conversation really, really interesting because it is all these stories that are playing out in our head that are keeping us holding us back. Because One of the things you were saying at the start about having a typo. Right? Mhmm. I can remember if he got me back maybe 10 years ago, Like, because I'm an English graduate as well. So, you know, my email should be reasonably good. And so it would take me so long sometimes. If it was a popular important message, or if it was some to someone important, I'd sit there and overthink the heck out of it. So see if I just said what I had to say. Boom. We get done because I don't know if you spotted. I can talk quite easily. But when it came to writing, then I'm overthinking it so much. But, no, like yourself, I've got to the station where I really don't give a shit anymore. And so it's not so much tables, but I'll have whole words messing out sentences. Anybody's have had an email from me It's like, where did that work go? And it's just like, I wonder if one of the things that helps is just As you get older, you've got more confidence -- Mhmm. -- for some of us. Yeah. We're maybe feeling a little bit more secure in life. that's going to make it easier. So I'm just wondering with all the women and all the people that you've worked with, what tips would you give people to help them start moving from that, but where they're agonizing over the email or whatever it is that has to be perfect to get into the point where they just, like, I don't give a shit now.

Laura [00:24:05]:

It's It is a process because it's new to you and it's alien. So whenever people are like, oh, you know, JFK, it's like, oh, come on. It's a little bit more deep than JFKDI. Actually, let's do baby steps. So I would almost And this is where, like, my kind of playful rebellious side comes in. I'd almost make a spelling mistake on purpose in an email. and just see if it gets noticed.

Julie [00:24:43]:

Okay. Pause for a second. Right? Listeners. Our challenge for you For the next email that you send, we want you to deliberately make a spelling mistake. Mhmm. and just see how it feels and see if anybody spots it. I know someone that does something wacky like this with their emails and their blogs. They put a random worth of sentence in it just to see if anybody notices. Right. Can't remember who it is. They do it for fun. But, yeah, challenge listeners, let's start being a little bit more imperfect.

Emily [00:25:16]:

Right? Would you be really cheeky about the word as well, like so?

Julie [00:25:20]:

think we know Laura's answer to that one.

Emily [00:25:23]:

You know, I spent a whole summer of handing out CDs around all these shops in Edinburgh. saying that I'd won awards in pubic speaking. Yeah.

Laura [00:25:33]:

My god. Amazing.

Emily [00:25:35]:

Oh, I thought I didn't get a job. So I just want to say you can be a little bit funny with it, aren't you? Intentionally

Laura [00:25:43]:

or not? Well, this this is it. And I think as well, I mean, I wouldn't overthink being funny on purpose. Like, just put in a just misspell a word. And I think now, because so many of us are creating content on social media, sometimes our thumbs move faster than our brain can engage. It's only after you reread your social media posts to praise yourself on how awesome it is. And yet if I do that, it's like, oh, oh, oh, that was a spelling mistake. And it's almost can I leave it? Can I actually live with myself knowing that I've spotted a mistake? I can't be bothered to edit it.

Emily [00:26:33]:

Oh, apparently, you don't get the boosts on the algorithm if you go in an edit.

Laura [00:26:40]:

Oh, really? Apparently,

Emily [00:26:43]:

Oh.

Julie [00:26:44]:

Somebody told me that. They see. This is social media, black magic, hocus pocus, we're entering in there. And I'm just going to put your quick plug. Alright. In an upcoming episode, we do have someone coming along to detoxify social media for us. So stay tuned for that episode coming up. Right. Anyway, on with the show, Laura, what other tips have you got for us for cracking as perfectionism

Laura [00:27:04]:

there? Oh, cracking perfectionism.

Julie [00:27:08]:

Or even just, you know, things that you've learned or you've observed with the with the people that you've worked with?

Laura [00:27:14]:

I So I tend to work with a lot of women who were similar to me who have gone through a large part of their life following the rules, and it didn't serve them. And they've gotten to a certain point whether it their forties or their fifties, and they've thought, no. I'm getting off this ride. No. It's crap. I want to do something else. So a lot of a lot of the women I attract have set up their business because they decided to walk their own path. and now they want to kind of shine a guiding light for others who want to do something similar. Show what's possible. And it's always that kind of rebellious streak, and that's probably what attracts me to these particular clients because it's like, yeah. There's a chink in the armour.

Julie [00:28:07]:

I have no idea why we've been attracted to Richard. 0.

Laura [00:28:13]:

Oh, that is what I want to hone in on. And as well, because, you know, I've worked in the PR industry for 20 years. I know what journalists are looking for. So when I see a chink, I'm like, that. That is it. Because we can only stop taboo subjects being taboo if we talk about them. And it's not always comfortable, and it's not always easy. But if you are passionate about what you're doing and it's a deep enough passion, You start to realize that the end result is far more important than how perfect you are along the way.

Julie [00:28:53]:

I think you've just described our podcast.

Emily [00:28:58]:

What do you mean? We're not perfect.

Julie [00:29:02]:

No. No. None of us were big visibility people when we started, and we are still making it up as we go along. But because we give a shit so much about, you know, empowering women around money and making it easier to talk about money. We turn up, and we don't mind it. We're not perfect.

Emily [00:29:20]:

That's what it's all about. And how many -- I can't, primarily, who clearly is perfect, and luckily been kind of remote. I can't spell clearly on my CV even.

Julie [00:29:29]:

But No. How many downloads now, Julie? It's coming on -- We're going to be pushing 15,000 very soon, so thank you very much, listeners, and for all the lovely reviews that we've had as well. because the nice people at CBRE have been leaving us reviews, so it was a pleasure talking to them. Sorry. Little plug in there for CBRE.

Emily [00:29:45]:

Please like share and subscribe, guys. and review.

Laura [00:29:49]:

Get that review in.

Julie [00:29:52]:

Uh-huh. Please. Betty, please. Like, what were we talking about before we went off? on attention there?

Laura [00:30:01]:

Being rebellious, going against the grain, rewriting the rule book, Right. So -- How to get used to not being perfect?

Julie [00:30:12]:

Yeah. That's what I was thinking. So we've all got this little voice in our head dinner critic whatever he happens to be called. Then have we all potentially got this little rebel inside us as well? Yes. Little rebel that does want to stick two fingers up at the status quo. The little rebel that doesn't care that they made a spelling mistake. The little rebel that's going to swear on a podcast. And is that the voice that we need to be channelling a little bit more if we want to combat this perfectionism? So do you look like you've gotten in a rebel?

Sara [00:30:46]:

Yeah. She does. But

Julie [00:30:49]:

what would happen if we let the rebel out?

Sara [00:30:52]:

chaos, probably.

Julie [00:30:55]:

And that's interesting. The is it scary the thought letting the rebel out?

Sara [00:31:02]:

It's getting less and less scary now. I'd say each day as each day passes. But if you'd ask me few years ago? No. Those big pants would have been firmly in the draw. So, yeah, I think Going back to what we were talking about earlier when we said about women and the perfectionism, I know we went off on a, you know, talking about children, but I always go back to this. When my kids were little, I really, really struggled. You know? You thought, like Emily said, I don't I don't think I made cakes, but, you know, it's that same vein of behaviour. And then years down the line, met a mom on the school gate who turned out was

Julie [00:31:46]:

a bit like us, had an inner definitely had an inner rebel.

Sara [00:31:50]:

And we used to meet up with a couple of other moms for a drink. And one day, she said, come to mind. And we sat in her towable caravan on her driveway. I'm sure the whole neighbourhood heard what we're talking about certainly heard the laughing. But what really struck me, and it stayed with me ever since was we all ended up talking about how we struggled when our kids were little and how we thought everyone else was doing a better job than we were. And if only we bloody talked about it. And I think you can apply that to any aspect, whether it's your business or raising a family or anything. We just need to just be open and honest and say, well, I'm having this kind of day. Well, I struggle with this. And suddenly, someone else would go, yeah, me too. And then you realize none of us are perfect. You put so much pressure on yourself because you project onto others what you think that perfectionism It should be, don't you? And you think they've all got that. They're looking at you with that, but they're not. They don't give a shit. Too busy with their own crafts. Would all a Poole mess?

Julie [00:32:50]:

Yeah.

Sara [00:32:51]:

I like the hotness. I like that. Yeah.

Emily [00:32:53]:

It's also true. I mean, I remember saying to people probably not the time a bit afterwards, afterwards, through the worst of it, but I remember saying, basically, I think most people get postnatal depression. And then they'll look at me going, but whether it is what you would call depression or whether it is not, whether it's just a massive shift in your mental state, I don't think you can deny that it happens when you when your life changes so drastically, And I think that probably was one of the lowest times of my life. And you're right. There was not enough people talking about it. And now I'm in a different stage in my life, but now there's you know, I talk a lot about menopause after reading Davina McCall's book and following all the influences on Instagram and things. And I talk to people all the time about menopause, and some of them just look at me. You're in denial age forty six. No. I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm okay. Mhmm. Yeah. Give it a couple of years. Yeah. You might be fine. And, yeah, they're the same people telling me, oh, they're really hot. Oh, I'm feeling really anxious today. They're coming out with all of the symptoms. And I'm like, oh, you got symptoms. That is but you don't have it. It's alright. It's fine.

Julie [00:34:12]:

That really that really just hasn't talked then I will -- We go we go through all this stuff,

Sara [00:34:18]:

and we have all this extra stuff, and we still think we need to be perfect. I'm like, fuck fuck's sake.

Sara [00:34:26]:

It's totally insanity.

Laura [00:34:27]:

Yeah. I wonder as well. And maybe I mean, is it perfectionism? Or is it comparisonitis?

Julie [00:34:39]:

And I've just been thinking that actually.

Laura [00:34:42]:

listening to a conversation. It's like, well, where does this expectation of perfection come from? Is it because we see other people around us and make judgments based on what we're seeing.

Sara [00:34:55]:

Mhmm. Yeah. Assumptions.

Laura [00:34:56]:

Yeah. Or is this is this reality because the 4 of us, we're going to have something could happen, and we're all going to have a different version of events. And it's all the truth, but Each of our stories will differ. So it's almost and again, I think this is where I sometimes have issues with social media because it's far too easy for people to only showcase the perfect and the polished, which I think makes me even more determined to show up in my dressing gown and have them in my eyes. And dogs wobble all over me because that's my life, and other people can relate to that more than they can relate to me having you know, photoshoot ready skin and a and a wardrobe to die for. They're like, that's not that's one moment in time. that's not a reflection of my life. And I just wonder if the last 5 or 10 years where social media has been so highly polished, and everything's produced to an inch of its life. is almost skewing the truth?

Sara [00:36:07]:

Absolutely.

Julie [00:36:09]:

I think you're onto something there. I think if that's If we had the previous generation perfectionism being fed from how previous generations lived, then the current generation perfectionism is being fed by social media.

Laura [00:36:22]:

Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm. Oh, a 100%. And even and, you know, obviously, I've worked in the PR industry. You know? I went to 18 to study it. So it's been in my life for over 20 years. And the media gets a really bad rap. And I can understand because of the way they report things, but that had to a change and adapt to social media Because, you know, back in the day, if there was if there was, like, a bomb explosion on London Bridge, news reporters would be the first people to hear about that from the Metropolitan Police. Now it's somebody who stood next to the bomber Poole mimic it with their phone. So that person now informs news teams, and then the news teams have to react really quickly. because they need to be seen to be leading with the news, not responding to people on their phones, and it's just it's like the world's gone mad.

Julie [00:37:22]:

It has. But at least be on to our thing that I have for you then. So, obviously, like, you've come down off that fence about how you feel about social media and how businesses should be promoting themselves. So Give talk to me then about the case for PR for good. Mhmm. The difference that PR can make and what some of the barriers are that people have with regards

Laura [00:37:43]:

sort of putting themselves out there. Yeah. I would say the first one is whenever I talk about the media, people automatically think of the sun and the daily mail. And then they don't get any further than the sun or the daily mail because both of those newspapers have a reputation. not necessarily a good one. And then a lot of what they may see shared online by their peers, by their coaches, their mentors, people that they're in groups with, tends to be them sharing their rags to riches story. I went from $30 in debt to earning 3 1000000 a year. If you haven't been through that, You're going to start thinking, oh, well, I can't get featured in the press because I don't have a rags to riches story. No. That's not for me. No. I don't want to be in the sun or the daily mail, and I don't have a rags to riches story. Certainly, you know, PR is not for me. But the media landscape is massive. And, you know, now we have podcasts. We have YouTube channels. They're not mainstream media, but they're also not social media. You know, YouTube is a video channel. Podcasts are an audio channel. So it's all about, for me, it's figuring out where you need to be seen to get in front of your audience. So for me, my clients are female business owners. So what do I do? I make sure that I'm positioned in the different media outlets that are going to be read, watched, listened to by other female business owners. I've never had to share my personal story once. Sometimes on podcasts, it comes out.

Julie [00:39:35]:

And no. Stay tuned for part 2 listeners.

Laura [00:39:39]:

Part of it part of it could be because I also believe I don't have a dramatic or traumatic enough story to make it into the papers. But to be honest, that's okay because there's so much more to me than drama or trauma. You know? I've got 20 years experience in an industry. I am one of very few friends who's decided not to have children. I was the first female in my family to go to university. Like, there's a lot of firsts going on for me. And while that's great, that that's hard. So I kind of almost want to say to people, look, I want to show up and just show you that anything is possible. Just make sure that you really want to do it, and you're not doing it because your parents want you to be a certain way or because you've got all this pressure to earn a certain amount of money. And, like, money has to be, like, the biggest taboo subject ever, even still today in 2023. So I'm almost like I just want. Do you know what? I actually think my superpower is. I've always been like, oh, I'm just average. You know, always had average grades, always like average cleverness, wit, attractiveness. And I'm like, do I I'm here. I'm here flying the flag for average people that you can you can do what you want. Actually, sometimes being average is better because nobody's paying any attention to you because you're not, like, up here and but, also, you're not down there either. So you can kind of get away with what you want because eyes aren't on you. So I think then having eyes on you in the media, all of a sudden, it's like, oh god. Oh, no. I don't want I don't want that. I don't want Charles leaving nasty comments about me on social media. I can't cope with people's opinions and judgment of me. And that, for me, is a big sticking point. Is what other people think of me. So when I kind of say to Poole, if you're featured on not mine, don't ever read the comments because Nothing nice happens there. Its just opinionated people have nothing better to do. Talking to you about what a terrible person you are. and it's irrelevant what you're talking about. It could be that you've retired your husband early, which is amazing for the family dynamic, But Susan from Carlisle thinks you're a piece of shit because your husband should be the breadwinner. Sorry if you're called Susan and live in Carlisle. But it's just it's almost and this is why I always have to say to Poole. Just always remember why you are doing what you're doing. and let that purpose outweigh anything that's going to come and try and knock you off the path along the way.

Julie [00:42:27]:

bloody wise words. So, Sarah, as we're just kind of drawn towards the end of this episode, Sarah, I'm just wondering what what's your biggest takeaway? from this conversation. God.

Sara [00:42:39]:

Where'd you start? I think Well, the media thing is a big one because I hate social media. And to be honest, most people do. And it's actually I think we do need reminding that there are other ways of getting yourself out there and getting your message out there. But I think as ever, my big takeaway is talk and share, ladies, because, actually, we're all just muddling along whether we're average or not. Because the stuff that comes out just even from this conversation Yeah. No. It's fantastic. A lot I love your I love your approach, Laura. Brilliant. Yeah. Get people to consider something else other than social media and ignore whoever it is Keith Betty Mcapacker.

Julie [00:43:30]:

or Susan from Carlisle.

Laura [00:43:33]:

Susan from Carlisle.

Sara [00:43:34]:

And find your rebel find your rebel. Alright.

Julie [00:43:38]:

Emily What it was sticking with you most from this episode?

Emily [00:43:43]:

Yeah. I just think this idea of perfectionism It's really about thinking that there's a set of rules you've got to follow, and rules are for children. And when you're an adult, you get to make your own. Oh. And, yeah, I think that's what we should all be doing. Well, that's And then you could break them. Yeah. But you don't actually, you don't even have to have rules. That's how grown up you are now. Yeah. Alright. Just have some values and some morals, and the rest fair game, obviously.

Julie [00:44:18]:

Uh-huh. I will be going away to find the name of my inner rebel goddess, whoever the heck that's just going to wreak college on the wall. I think my other takeaway is then is just how in city is social media risk with the messaging that's sending you. Because you're talking about the rags to riches story that you see in the press. My eyebrows went sky high at that point because I don't know how many people I know that are like this. But the idea that that's who gets to feature in the press, that story comes from social media.

Laura [00:44:47]:

Yeah.

Julie [00:44:48]:

It's like the snake eating that's tail. It's really insane. Mhmm. So I'm hoping everybody's going to take the challenge to go away tomorrow or today and be a little more imperfect. Laura, you have been an utterly fantastic guest. We will be having you back for a second episode because I want the story. But just, you know, for people that are listening, if they want to find out more about the work that you do or learn how to be a little bit more imperfect and just basically go kick ass at the world, How was the best way for them to get in touch with you?

Laura [00:45:20]:

So I am across several different social media platforms, but interestingly, you'll see a different version of Johnny John. So the best place to hang out with me is on Instagram. So that's where I tend to

Julie [00:45:37]:

-- Is this where we get the slipper photo?

Laura [00:45:41]:

Destin' getting a slip of photos on Instagram. Yeah. Yeah. On Instagram. And I'll go live and I kind of go off on ranty tangents. So, yeah, Instagram if you want to see what not being perfect looks like. With dogs barking in the background and sometimes in my dressing gown. Otherwise, I probably share a lot more inspirational stories on Facebook. So you can connect with me, Laura Perks on Facebook or PR with Perks on Instagram.

Julie [00:46:16]:

Alright. Thank you for that. Now, generally, as we can't draw through those, we like to ask our guests a random question. I'm a little bit afraid. And they said -- Oh, nice. We want to know because we're super nosy. Is what was the last thing you googled, Laura?

Laura [00:46:34]:

It's actually really boring. I had to Google what the exchange rate was from the US dollar to the great British pound. I'm sorry. It's nothing more

Julie [00:46:49]:

You're on a money podcast.

Laura [00:46:51]:

Well, this is true. I thought I should have made something up. But I was looking at a new piece of software. It's always in the US. Like, what what's going on with people in the US or constantly creating tech that we need for our businesses? But I was like, oh, I don't know what that is in pounds,

Julie [00:47:10]:

and I don't know what the exchange rate is. So, yeah, I googled that Alright. That's great. Look, Laurie. You have been a fantastic guest. Thank you so much for joining us. I'm sure the listeners have had lots of fun listening to it. Yeah. Thank you for having me. Alright, Sarah. Emily, thank you very much for joining me on this one.

Emily [00:47:29]:

Thanks. Bye.

Julie [00:47:30]:

Alright. Good fun. Thank you. And to you, the lessors. Thank you very much as always for continuing to listen to his assembly health me plug earlier, our download stats are going up a lot. So thank you very much. And until next time, please do take care of yourselves.