113. Is Cash King?

We know from chatting to you that many of you have started investing since listening to the podcast. And we love that! But we also know that it will have been hard watching your investments this year and that you may be tempted to quit investing and move money to cash because of interest rates. This episode is for you if you are feeling disillusioned with investing.  The whole team is here for this episode to share with you what we are saying to our clients to help them right now.

At the risk of sounding like an Instagram reel, follow the process 😉 Remember why you invested in the first place.

Episode 81 -  a refresher on risk
Episode 49 - what to do in scary markets
Blog - 4 ways to f##k up your investments, and what to do instead

YOUR HOST

Julie Flynn is an experienced independent financial adviser and financial coach. Justice and equality drive Julie. Which is why she’s spent years studying and researching how stress affects our financial decision making.

Julie is best known for her work with women who have lost their partner and coaching financial services business who want to implement fair and transparent charges.
Ebb & Flow Financial Coaching | Bree Wealth & Tax | Instagram


CO-HOSTS
Emily Pool is a Financial Planner and Will Writer. She is passionate about empowering people to invest their wealth (pensions and savings) sustainably and in line with their personal values.

Michelle Lambell  started her career in financial services as a Stockbroker in 1999 undertaking both advisory and discretionary investment management. Today she is a Chartered Financial Planner, specialising in retirement planning advice, pensions and investments and a Certified Financial Coach. 

Sara Walker is a financial planner and financial coach with 33 years’ experience in financial services. She wants all women to feel financially confident and uses her professional and life experiences to support and educate women over 40 so they in turn feel able to support and be role models for the younger women in their lives.

Jennifer O'Neil is a mortgage and protection specialist and director of Athena Mortgages. Having been in the industry since 2014 Jennifer decided to set up a company in 2020 that suited her core values as a broker – integrity, service, honesty and continuous improvement.
LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook

Transcript

Julie [00:00:06]:

Welcome back to this episode of the women and money cafe. Now today, We're tackling a really important issue. That's because I think it's fair to say that myself and everybody else that works in the podcast, We do feel a sense of responsibility towards you. And that is we have been encouraging you for, what, nearly 2 years well, 3 years if you bring clubhouse feathers to start investing. And that first if you listen to us in that first year and you started investing, you'll have thought, oh, this is nice, watching it go up in value. The last 12 months, it hasn't been as pleasant. And I think we're all concerned that if you started investing and now you're looking at it, you're like, Now I don't like this anymore.

Julie [00:01:39]:

I don't think this is for me. I think what I'm going to do is stop and pull it all out and go and stick it in the bank where I can get 5 or 6%. What we want to do is just kind of revisit the conversations that we've had with you via the podcast and basically hold your hand through this But and help you figure out what the next best step for you is. So I'm ably assisted today by the wonderful team. So sitting next to me on the sofa, we've got Michelle?

Michelle [00:02:06]:

Hi, Julie.

Julie [00:02:08]:

Then next to Michelle, we've got Sarah.

Sara [00:02:11]:

Hello. Hello.

Julie [00:02:12]:

And at the other end of the sofa, we've got Emily.

Emily [00:02:14]:

Hello, Julie.

Julie [00:02:16]:

It's a flipping dream team. Alright? Yay. I think between us, we've got all probably over a 100 years worth of knowledge and experience, haven't we?

Sara [00:02:24]:

Easily. Yeah. Well, sadly.

Julie [00:02:29]:

I don't think it's unreasonable that you're sitting there maybe right now thinking, I don't like this anymore. What do you think, Michelle? What are you hearing from your clients?

Michelle [00:02:40]:

Probably exactly that, to be fair. It's they're looking at their statements. They're looking at, you know, what it's done over a year, 2 years, and they're looking at me Insane. Why am I invested? Because it's really not doing what I would like it to do. And if I go and put it in a bank somewhere else, I can get more. So why am I sticking with you, you know, and the investment? And I think that's where we really earn Our money, to be fair, and hold hands and provide reassurance, which is hopefully what we'll do today.

Julie [00:03:11]:

Alright. Fantastic. Thank you. Sarah, what you hear from people Blow what you're hearing in the office. Kind of that's what you're hearing in the office, Sarah. That's sneaky.

Sara [00:03:22]:

Well, Client wise, they're they come most of them just accept that they understand that we're in a very difficult situation, and, obviously, they've got enough In cash if they need it. Yeah. There are some questions coming up in the office and in other areas, but I think People, particularly people later in life or people who are feeling a bit, I haven't got so long to live. I'm worried about my money disappearing or not or there not being enough or it being down at the time either I need it or when I pass and there's less to pass on. So I think those are the people who are saying, you know, should I just stick it in in the bank? Because I know I can get, like you said, 5% or 6% over here, and I might not last longer than the fixed term of the of the interest rate or something like that. So we have heard some serious questions. There's been some other questions in the office that have been less sensible, but we might uncover those.

Julie [00:04:23]:

Intrigued, but moving on. Yes. Emily, what kind of things are you hearing in your part of the country?

Emily [00:04:33]:

I don't think there's a sort of delineation in terms of where you are in the country, but I would say that where There is the difference is where you fall on the risk profile scale, which the listeners would have heard us talk about before. But so if we have done our job correctly and if the risk profiling tool that we use with our clients has done their job correctly. The clients ought to be in portfolios that they're comfortable with the movements up and down. So this is the theoretical point of view. However, in practice, especially new investors can come into an investment process quite Enthusiastic. You know? They're all excited about becoming millionaires overnight. That tends to be what they seem to think. Of course, investing is a long, long game, and they do need to understand that there's a lot of downs as well as well as ups.

Emily [00:05:29]:

But so, Really, it's just about tell reminding the clients what they said when they answered their risk profile. You know, if we ask them the question, how did you feel, if you'd invested for 6 months and your portfolio dropped 20%, how did you feel? And they said, oh, Yeah. That's fine. I'm just going to switch and wait it out. That's what you tell them, and that's what you go back to. And that that's exactly what you said, Julie, is that we are now, as advisers, really earning our money. And that sounds bizarre because the market's going down and every all these clients are thinking they're not getting value out of us, And this is exactly the time they're getting value out of us because we are keeping them on the path that they've got to stay on for the long term. Yes.

Emily [00:06:13]:

Tap 1, but you got to write it down.

Julie [00:06:15]:

Alright. Thank you for that. So what we aim to do in the next 30 minutes as we're going to try and share with you all our wisdom, knowledge, and experience that our clients get the benefit of, that you we're going to share with you for nothing because we're nice. Obviously, caveat because Sarah's looking uncomfortable. There will be no regulated advice given at any point during the podcast. Okay. I also say that the end as well, so don't panic. Right.

Julie [00:06:38]:

No. So I think that's, it's like you maybe started and you heard us either on how to start your 1st ISA, how to start investing episodes, and you've gone off and done it. And maybe you're sitting there. I know for a fact, actually. There are listeners out there with, either the Moneybox or the Wealthify app because you all messaged me afterwards to tell me you'd gone and done it. And you'll be you'll be logging in and you're looking at it, and you're like, that's shit. It started off really good, and now it's shit. Why is it rubbish? Shall I just get rid of it? So, Michelle, if I came to you with this, imagine I'm one of the listeners and like, I did everything you told me, and it was all really good.

Julie [00:07:18]:

And now it's rubbish. I don't like it anymore. Should I just go and put it in a cash register or put it in the bank? What you what would you say to me?

Michelle [00:07:27]:

Absolutely not. I think because the first thing is whenever we did these podcasts, we are very clear the investing isn't for 6 months, a year, you know, 2 years. We're looking at long term. This is money you can put away and allow it to grow over the long term so you get the benefits of the market. So if we're looking at something about how it's done 6 months down the line, 12 months down the line, even 2 sometimes 2, 3 years down the line, it probably you know, it can look Quite rocky sometimes because that's what markets do. And particularly the last couple of years, we've obviously had a few things that have happened in the world, which have made things a little bit more difficult. But it's really when we've given you figures, when we give people advice, and when we talk to, you know, our listeners, we’re looking at long term returns, and we do look at long term because that's the important bit. You're in the market for the long term.

Michelle [00:08:25]:

So when we say you can, you know, potentially get this much or that much or that's how it can look, that's because we're looking at it over a number of years, not 6 months, a year, 2 years. And the flip side to that is that, okay, you could go and put it in a bank, And you could get your 5, 6%. Okay. That that's fine. We understand that, and we have no issue with that. But when markets do improve, They can move quite quickly in quite a short time. And if you're scrambling around to move your money back into the market, You've probably missed the first bit of the uplift, which is the really important bit. It's the bit you want to be in the market for Even if it is a bit uncomfortable beforehand.

Michelle [00:09:07]:

And I think that's, you know, down to us to educate, help, and guide, And to be the sounding board when you're going, but I'm not going to get that money back. It's only on paper. It's only on paper. You haven't taken that

Julie [00:09:20]:

money out, and if you

Michelle [00:09:21]:

don't need it, don't take it out.

Julie [00:09:24]:

Alright. Fantastic. Thanks for that. Sarah, I'm going to ask you a question, next, and I'm trying not to be facetious when I ask it right. Because so bear in mind, I am a listener, and listen to what Michelle said. And I'm like, okay. That's fair enough. I understand what you're saying there.

Julie [00:09:42]:

So, Sarah, tell me why don't we just do this instead? Why don't I take it out of the investment just now and go and put it in the bank where I can get the 5 or 6%. Then when the market starts to come back up, I'll take it out of the bank, and I'll put it back into the market. Would that work?

Sara [00:10:04]:

Well, I in theory, potentially, yes, it could work. However, in reality, not Likely to, partly because of what Michelle just referred to. But, also, most of the 5, 6% rates are in accounts where your money is locked away. So it might be tied up for a year or 2 years. I don't think it's 5 much of 5% if it's longer than that. Or you have to give 90 days notice better withdraw the money or you're limited in the number of withdrawals you can make, without losing your interest rate. So That's the first thing. These rates look good, but look at what the accounts are actually offering.

Sara [00:10:42]:

What are the limitations? So if you've got your money in a savings account where you can literally just say, I want to take it out all now really quickly because the markets are going up, Chances are the interest rate isn't going to be as good as these 5 to 6% so that we're vanishing about. And the other thing is, as Michelle said, it's timing. When you're investing long term, it's all about timing the market, not timing market. Because how do you know when the market's going to go up? By the time you know the markets are going up, as Michelle said, you've already missed the 1st uplift. You've already missed the beginning, And then it takes time to get hold of your money, take it out, get it invested, blah blah blah, and you're, you know, you're then buying when the markets are more expensive, And your money's then got to grow more to cover the fact that you've paid more for your investment.

Julie [00:11:32]:

Alright.

Emily [00:11:32]:

I could

Michelle [00:11:33]:

start off again.

Julie [00:11:35]:

That was put much more nicely and delicately than I would have answered that. Okay. I just said I just said, you're trying tame the market, it is impossible. It cannot be done. It's a guarantee for failure if you attempt it. So try it at your peril. So then, Emily, so for the nervous investor listener Who's not really enjoying current market conditions. Have you got any pearls of wisdom for them?

Emily [00:12:06]:

Oh, Julie, I think I've spoken to you about this client before. I saw your advice, but I do have a client who Is it you know, it's beyond the level of, just a little bit of financial anxiety. I do think that she has what you probably call General anxiety. And therefore, I she is a tricky person to deal with because She tells me that the state of her investment investments is making her ill, that it's, You know, it's all she thinks about. All she thinks about. And the problem is that she's got, obviously, the app on her phone, and she's checking it every day. Well, if some if checking the value of your investments is making you anxious, You have 2 choices, really. I mean, if it's making you well, you have 3 choices.

Emily [00:13:02]:

1, you get over it. You sort yourself out. You, you know, you speak to a financial coach. You get yourself comfortable enough to just leave it alone. 2, you cash in. You take the losses. That is not what, generally, what a financial adviser would, would recommend because, therefore, you are then knocking in the losses. And 3, well, it's maybe a bit of a mixture of the 2, actually, but acknowledge perhaps that you have more of a problem than just your average investor and that perhaps it's not just the finances that you're getting anxious about.

Emily [00:13:43]:

In fact, maybe there's other things going on in your life that you're actually then putting too much focus on to your finances saying that is what is making me anxious. And I have had a client in that situation before in addition to the one that I mentioned earlier, and it did turn and I don't want to send Set hair's running here, but it did turn out that, when she went to the doctor, the doctor did say that she did have some symptoms of depression. And, I'm not saying that everyone who is anxious about their investments has depression. I'm just saying that if this is consuming you to the that you can barely function, and I do know people like that because they're putting all of this negative focus onto the investments, then maybe there is a little bit more than just the finance is going on.

Julie [00:14:31]:

You know what? I absolutely bloody love that response, Emily, because you've just brought so much compassion to the conversation there. And I think there is that understanding. You know, there are some people because I've been a bit glib about some of it, but the people aren't enjoying or liking what's going on with right now. And it's acknowledging there are other people where it's causing genuine distress, and it's drawing a distinction between the 2. So thank you very much for that. So uh-huh. Seek professional help if that is you. Not us kind of professional help.

Julie [00:14:59]:

The medical kind of professional Will help. Yeah. Uh-huh. But if it's just, it's not nice, that's our kind of professional help you need. If it's anxiety inducing, go see the doctor. Not with your app though, obviously. My option 4 for me was just delete the bloody app. So if you're falling into that account, I don't like it very much right now.

Julie [00:15:21]:

One option is delete the app, stop looking. If you stop looking, it will It doesn't actually need you to do anything about that. But there's something else I wanted to talk about. And I think that's because we live in our little bubble of knowing financial Stuff. That maybe the general public and maybe listeners don't know. Shall we have a quick chat about interest rates? I know it's sexy as, isn't it? Okay. I

Sara [00:15:47]:

think it's important, especially at the moment. Yeah.

Julie [00:15:51]:

I think so I wrote about this recently, Oddly enough, it's talking about the recency bias and about how we associate things that have happened more recently with greater probability of continuing. So because we've had high interest rates for about 12 months now, maybe 18 months, we're like, okay, it will always be like that. We will always have these interest rates. And I think especially the let's help. Let's understand interest rates are used as a means of controlling inflation. Interest rates don't go up just for a hell of a full fund or just let let's make everything small because it's really expensive right now. Interest rates go up to try and bring inflation down because we need to bring inflation down. Is inflation on the way back down?

Sara [00:16:36]:

Yes.

Julie [00:16:36]:

Yes. It is. Is that 2% where it's meant to be? No. No. Is it going there anytime soon? Probably not Power and a Miracle.

Sara [00:16:45]:

I think we've I think I've seen 2026 brandished about this week.

Julie [00:16:50]:

I don't know

Sara [00:16:50]:

when they hope to get there.

Emily [00:16:52]:

Back to 2% in 2026. Yeah?

Sara [00:16:55]:

Yeah.

Julie [00:16:57]:

Quite. Alright.

Sara [00:16:59]:

So But it's isn't it? It's a target, I suppose.

Julie [00:17:01]:

It's target. So that's what I would say to you if you're listening to this. Right? The ratio you're getting in the bank, they are a by-product of us having high inflation. Now that we're starting to get inflation back under control, interest rates probably will start to drop back down at some point. When? I do not know why I left my crystal ball at the cleaners today. So while you've been getting 5 6% right now, do I think it's likely you'll be getting that in 12 months' time? No, if I'm honest, but that's a guess.

Sara [00:17:32]:

If you look at the longer term fixed rates on cash, 5 year Terms are already offering much lower rates, which says everything you need to know.

Julie [00:17:43]:

Right. So tell me, what have you seen on a 5 year FX?

Sara [00:17:48]:

Well, instead of it being late fives or a 6, you've got some that are just down below I will just over 5. It's not a huge difference, is it? But it shows that the

Julie [00:17:57]:

The trend is downwards now.

Sara [00:17:58]:

Yeah. The trend is downwards so that the lender the banks expect The rates could be coming down over the longer term, so they're not going to offer such good rates.

Julie [00:18:06]:

So if you listen to this, it's it looks for the time being, like, interest rates and inflation have peaked, And they are on their way back down. So we've made tape obviously, bear in mind, the shit could happen next year, and we have another big inflation spike. Right? Because a lot of our inflation is being driven by Brexit, by the war in Ukraine. If we have another world event that affects the supply chain, then that's going to bring inflation straight back into the system, and it's going to make interest rates. So crystal ball not here, but all things being equal, we think the trend is downwards now, don't we? Alright. Emily, you look like you've got something to say. So just toss my fingers.

Emily [00:18:45]:

I was just going to ask, And I think I recall this from when I studied a little bit of economics back in the day. But generally speaking, and this is not a prediction, nothing is guaranteed. Blah blah blah.

Julie [00:18:57]:

But you can make guesses, Emily. You don't like to make a guess.

Emily [00:18:59]:

So it cannot so I hear, and I don't know if you would agree, that Financial markets tend to have a good old rally, perhaps, caveat, around about 6 months after reaching peak inflation, and that's because of that anticipatory, momentum that says, okay. We are now on the way down with inflation. We are going to be on the way back Or we're already going back down with interest rates, and then companies start to feel like they're a little bit more secure. They know where Things are going. They know what their debt's going to cost them. They want to start to perhaps invest again. And therefore, that just drives a little bit of performance in the world of business. Is that something that you've heard or would agree with? Or

Julie [00:19:53]:

It seems like the economic cycle to me.

Sara [00:19:55]:

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I think I think in the in the world we're in today, it's the 6 months is, slightly expanded.

Emily [00:20:03]:

Yeah. You think more about?

Sara [00:20:05]:

And it's going to and there are other things at play for businesses to have confidence. It'll be interesting to see, I can't say that because I don't know when this is going out.

Julie [00:20:14]:

In middle of December, it's we're nearing the end of December now as this goes on. Michelle, I would love your take on this because I know this is one of your of expertise. Because don't forget, Michelle's a stock broker for crying out loud.

Michelle [00:20:29]:

No. I think it markets are waiting for signs of the inflation coming down and interest rates coming down, and that's what they're waiting for. And everything that you see at the moment, and you probably hear on the news because you can't actually get away from it, to be fair, is that central banks are Keeping their interest rates where they are. On the news, you'll always hear they're waiting because they want to see them come down, and that's what they're waiting for. And from our side, because we're watching markets every day, we can see in those days leading up to central banks making those big decisions, markets Generally get a bit jittery and a bit nervous. When the decision's made, if they like it, they'll go up. If they're not so sure, they just carry on being very jittery again. And that's what we've had, and that's the problem this year because you've got no certainty, You know, with so for an example, when you had the inflation released last week, I think it was, is it 4.6% for the UK? So it was quite a big drop.

Michelle [00:21:33]:

The markets went a bit nuts for the next sort of 24 hours because they were very excited. And that's what you'll see. But once we come out of that Uncertainty. You know, we can't actually dictate what goes on in the rest of the world or what might happen. But if we carry on this. Once markets have got a bit of certainty, they'll settle a bit, and then you'll start to see, You know, an uplift in the markets, hopefully, but everybody that I kind of speak to says it will be more gradual. You know, we will see because we're all still a bit nervous about what The politicians in the world are doing these days.

Julie [00:22:09]:

Well, that's the thing. Next year, we've got an election, and that's more uncertain. Just does anybody else think of the market as being like They're irrational, erratic, emotional friend. But if they hear something good, they get all giddy and they get up on the tables and dance. And if they hear something they don't like, they're just sitting under the table and having a good cry.

Michelle [00:22:29]:

The best thing I ever heard about markets was, Yes. Markets are a reflection actually of investors' emotions. Uh-huh. So where we're going up and down like a Yoyo. That's what we're doing. We're all really nervous, really jittery, and it's just reflecting the same thing. So hopefully, once we have lower interest rates and lower inflation, we all go out and have a party, and, hopefully, the markets will too.

Michelle [00:22:51]:

But you know?

Sara [00:22:52]:

Alright. So I think

Julie [00:22:53]:

we did go off a little bit of a tangent there. But I think what I was trying to get across to people is Just because we've had high interest rates does not mean that is the norm and that it is here to stay. Like, we need to put it into context as well because, yes, 5% looks like a good interest rate when for years we've had the bank's offering as 0.05%. So it looks like proper full on party time at the bank, doesn't it? But let's put that into context that we have had inflation running in double digits. So, Like, if we go back 12 months ago and you've got a 5% return, if inflation was at 10%, all you've just done is guaranteed that you've lost 5% in the buying power. Have I got that right? I kept the math simple so I could mess it up.

Michelle [00:23:41]:

And also if you think about going back to when we had low interest Right. So you were being offered, you know, half a percent. But if inflation was running at 2%, you're actually only losing sort of 1 a half So, actually, the loss you've got now is much greater than what it was when we had the low interest rates. It's just our perception of how we see those numbers. We seem to we always seem to forget the inflation ones because we just don't always associate them together.

Julie [00:24:08]:

Alright. Little thing

Sara [00:24:09]:

on, inflation, though. It might be saying it's at 4 per 4.6%, but they're saying that the actual Money to the people in their pockets. The food inflation is still much higher than that. Mhmm. So it doesn't

Michelle [00:24:21]:

It's at 14%, I think.

Sara [00:24:23]:

Yeah. It's yeah. It's crazy. It's really great. So it will still feel to you that your money actually has less even less buying power than you might think.

Emily [00:24:33]:

Alright. So also argue that, it it's not always that helpful to be worried about that headline inflation figure. Don't know if anyone else has used their own used that tool that is available to work out what your own personal inflation is because, obviously, inflation is just a basket of goods, And that includes crop tops and bras. You know, if you're a 45 year old male, I'm Pretty sure neither of those are going to be relevant unless you've got a teenage daughter or something. So I just think that, you know, if you're really wanting to work out Whether things are still good you know, how bad it is for you, then put it into a personal, inflation tracker. I'll give you the link for the notes, Julie.

Julie [00:25:20]:

Alright. Thank you. So I think we've covered off some technical stuff there, which is the nature of the markets going up and down. The fact that you can't tighten the markets. And when I say you can't tighten the markets, I can't tighten the markets See that? Nobody can. Nobody on the planet can. We've done we've touched a little bit on interest rates and inflation and what have you, But I think that we've missed out on some of the really important points. Well, the important point is why the hell were you investing in the first place? Right.

Julie [00:25:45]:

Presumably, you have listened to us and you've heard us you've heard us go through the chat of make sure you've got enough put aside for an emergency Done. Make sure you've got enough put aside for your planned expenditure over the next 1 to 3 years. And then everything else, let's go investing. You could have put a lump sum on, or you could have been doing the investments. And we will have said to you, be clear on why you're investing. What is the purpose of the money? And getting really clear on that intention. If the purpose of the money was to do something in 10 years' time, do we actually care What the stock market did today. Because I am prepared to bet my house that if you don't touch it and you leave it the hell alone in 10 years' It will be bigger then than it is today considerably.

Julie [00:26:31]:

I'm even going to go further. Say, I'm going to bet my house. I'm going to bet Sarah's and Michelle's and Emily's house. Right? Well, hold on. Hold

Sara [00:26:38]:

on there just a minute.

Julie [00:26:39]:

Because they're all nodding in agreement with me. Like, let's put some skin in the game. Right? So if you leave the money in the investment in 10 years' time, it will be worth considerably more than if you put it in the bank. Does anybody want to pull their house out of this this guarantee that I'm offering the listeners?

Emily [00:26:58]:

No.

Sara [00:26:59]:

Guarantee?

Julie [00:27:03]:

Go big or go home, Sarah?

Sara [00:27:05]:

That might depend if there's been any sudden world catastrophe At the time, they want to take the money out to be my caveat to that one.

Julie [00:27:11]:

We'll be here in 10 years' time to talk them through the exit strategy.

Sara [00:27:15]:

Okay. Good. That's fine. Yep.

Emily [00:27:18]:

Think when I say things like that, Sarah, somebody always says, well, if the world's gone that bad, you're probably not going to be here Anyway, so the fact that you've lost your house probably doesn't mess.

Julie [00:27:32]:

Who was it that said you want to invest in shotguns and water? Was somebody in the empowered group said if the markers have gone that badly wrong, shotguns and water, that's where you want your money.

Emily [00:27:44]:

Yeah. That's a depressing thought. Right. Let's open this up, shall we?

So I think

it was just bringing

it that back to the basics of why you invested in the 1st place and being really clear. And I think one of the things I know that has helped clients that I've worked with is writing it down. They've made even if it's just like a couple of bullet points, I'm investing for Write what it is, and then write in why, because and it's just something to be able it's like a touchstone that you can keep going back to. So if it was for I'm trying to think of an example. I know. I've got a couple that want to go off tour in Canada when they finish working. So some of the money is set aside for that. So if we use that as an example, they can have a post it note that says Canada, Freedom adventures in Germany.

Julie [00:28:39]:

So when they get their annual statement, and let's say it's dropped 10%, let's say it's dropped 15%. And like, oh, don't like that. Go visit the post it. No. It's Canada. Canada's not happening for another 7 years yet. Let's not panic. Is anybody else doing like that with clients? Yeah.

Julie [00:28:56]:

Yeah.

Sara [00:28:57]:

Not posting notes, but yeah.

Julie [00:29:00]:

No. It

Emily [00:29:00]:

just comes back to that that principle of, financial well-being that, you know, money is not there for money's sake. Money is there for a purpose to help you enjoy life. And if that bit of that bit of life that you're wanting to enjoy without money isn't here yet, why worry about it? Worry about it in 10 years' time When you will have the money, hopefully. Touch wood. No guarantees.

Julie [00:29:27]:

Alright. Or you can have my house and Emily's house and There's house. Michelle's house is all good. So are there any other sort of as we wrap things up, are there any sort of final words of comfort or just wisdom Some or just things you want the listeners to know. Michelle, what would you have to say to them?

Michelle [00:29:46]:

I think at the beginning when you mentioned recency bias where people are looking and thinking, okay. I'm going to get this interest rate, you know, on my savings forever. Now we had that just before this happened with people on their mortgages who had 1% interest rates, and they thought they would stay at 1% forever. That's why that they borrowed the amount they did because they agree the repayments they had. So I think you've got a lot of people who I talk to who are saying, well, I know interest rates will come down on mortgages Because I'm going to go back to being able to afford my mortgage better. The same applies for savings. If they're going to go down for mortgages, they're going to go down for savings. So It's just having the complete picture in mind.

Michelle [00:30:25]:

You can't separate what you pay on a mortgage to what you receive on your savings. There has to be a balance between the 2. So if that's what you're thinking, okay. I'm going to leave that money there, and I'm going to get 5% for the next 5 years. Well, then you're going to pay probably 6, seven percent on your mortgage for the next 5 years. How realistic do you think that is? Maybe not so. So it is just about remembering What we have recently and, you know, it is coming back the other way. We are seeing mortgage rates coming back the other way.

Michelle [00:30:56]:

And if you're seeing that, That's what's going to happen to your savings. So do you want to stay invested?

Julie [00:31:03]:

Alright. Thank you. Sarah, what have you got for the listeners?

Sara [00:31:08]:

Well, stick to what's on your Post it note. Stick to your purpose. The reason the reason that money's there, keep revisiting it. And the other thing is try not to get too distracted or disheartened by all the noise and nonsense that's out there because it is everywhere. So all the headlines or however you read them on a whatever media or means, and just stay to what means. What does it mean to you? What's your purpose? How is it affecting you and yours? And stay focused on that and ignore everything else.

Julie [00:31:42]:

Sound advice. I like that. That's perfect. Emily, any last words of wisdom for the listeners to help them navigate the Tricky times we're experiencing right now.

Emily [00:31:53]:

Yeah. I mean, we have allude. We've said this before, previously in the and then in this podcast. But If I can, I will dig out something for the show notes as well that puts some figures around this conundrum because, if There is some research out there that has said that if you miss the best day in the market over the last x number of years, You'll be x% down? I'm not giving you the figures because I can't remember it exactly.

Julie [00:32:21]:

I think we all understand what you mean. Uh-huh.

Emily [00:32:23]:

Yeah. The principle's the same. And so Not knowing which is going to be the best day in the market, you know, you take your money out, you could miss it because it could be tomorrow. And, you know, if you miss the best 10 days in the market, I think that that percentage difference Between had you just stayed invested or had or versus missing those days, it was it was a massive number. I couldn't believe it. It was I can't remember. I'm going to Guess about 20, 30% difference if you miss the best 10 days in the market or something like that. Anyway, if I do if I find the notes, I will Send them to you for the show notes.

Emily [00:33:00]:

But just don't miss the best days and stay in the market. Right.

Julie [00:33:05]:

Okay. So Just to wrap things up that yeah. We get it's not fun right now, and it doesn't look pretty. But I'm hoping that what's come across is our absolute conviction The so much so that I bet everybody's house. The investing is still a good idea. Okay. If the money's for the long medium to long term, stay invested. It is the right place to go.

Julie [00:33:28]:

And regular listers will probably have heard me say this before, but I'm going to say it again. Your money is like a bar of soap. The more you touch it, the smaller it's going to get. So leave it the hell alone. Alright. So, it just reminds me to say thank you very much, Michelle.

Emily [00:33:45]:

Thanks. You. It was a good one.

Julie [00:33:47]:

It was, Sarah.

Sara [00:33:49]:

Thank you. Yep. Very cool.

Julie [00:33:50]:

Another one. And, Emily, thank you.

Emily [00:33:53]:

Thank you.

Julie [00:33:54]:

Alright. And you, the listeners, thank you very much for listening and for trusting us. If you aren't having any wobbles and we haven't I've managed to talk you off the ledge with this episode. Drop me a message. Right. We don't want to see you make any mistakes. That's what we're here for. But until next time, please do Take care of yourselves.