111. Money MOT

On this episode of the Women in Money Cafe, guests Sara and Michelle talk about money M.O.T, a financial health check concept. They discuss tools such as HSBC's financial fitness test and Money to the Masses' money MOT tool. These tools can help listeners assess their financial health and provide insights on areas in need of improvement. They also discuss their personal strategies for saving money and encourage listeners not to feel overwhelmed when checking their finances, but instead take small steps to improve their financial situation.

00:00 Introduction and Welcoming Guests
00:21 Discussing the Concept of a Money M.O.T
02:00 Exploring the HSBC Financial Fitness Test
02:51 Discussing the Importance of Knowing Your Financial Numbers
03:17 Sharing Personal Experiences with the HSBC Test
10:00 Introducing the Money to the Masses Tool
10:20 Sharing Personal Experiences with the Money to the Masses Tool
15:40 Discussing the Importance of Emergency Funds
21:15 Sharing Personal Money Management Strategies
27:19 Final Thoughts and Closing Remarks

Money to the Masses MOT https://mot.moneytothemasses.com/
HSBC Fitness Score https://financialfitness.hsbc.co.uk/

YOUR HOST

Julie Flynn is an experienced independent financial adviser and financial coach. Justice and equality drive Julie. Which is why she’s spent years studying and researching how stress affects our financial decision making.

Julie is best known for her work with women who have lost their partner and coaching financial services business who want to implement fair and transparent charges.
Ebb & Flow Financial Coaching | Bree Wealth & Tax | Instagram


CO-HOSTS
Emily Pool is a Financial Planner and Will Writer. She is passionate about empowering people to invest their wealth (pensions and savings) sustainably and in line with their personal values.


Michelle Lambell  started her career in financial services as a Stockbroker in 1999 undertaking both advisory and discretionary investment management. Today she is a Chartered Financial Planner, specialising in retirement planning advice, pensions and investments and a Certified Financial Coach. 

Sara Walker is a financial planner and financial coach with 33 years’ experience in financial services. She wants all women to feel financially confident and uses her professional and life experiences to support and educate women over 40 so they in turn feel able to support and be role models for the younger women in their lives. 

Transcript

Julie [00:00:57]:

Welcome back to this episode of the Women and Money Cafe. Now today on the sofa, I'm joined by Sara. Hello, Sara. How are you doing?

Sara [00:01:18]:

Hello, Julie. I'm fine. Thank you. Hello, listeners.

Julie [00:01:21]:

Hello. And, also, I've got Michelle. How we doing,?

Michelle [00:01:24]:

Julie. I'm good. Thank you.

Julie [00:01:26]:

Oh, yeah? Yeah. I

Michelle [00:01:29]:

think so.

Julie [00:01:29]:

Fantastic. Alright. So today, right, if you listen to episode 107, which was the listener spotlight with Rachael Albert. Rachel came on and she was asking us really, really good questions. And it was along the lines of, you know, she used a phrase like, Can you get such a thing as a money MOT? Like, if you don't want, like, to spend hours talking to a financial adviser, and quite frankly, Who does, apart from us? There's like, how can you what would be an easy way to get to grips with, like, a health check on your money? And we thought it was such a good question that we went away, and we spent a lot of time thinking about this and doing some research. And, like, Hats off to Michelle who's come up with some really good resources for us. So what we're going to do today is just kind of talk you through how you can find out how financially fit you are, What are the tools out there that can help you? And some hints and tips from us because as you're listening to this, we are in December now, And the New Year is approaching. And there will be that period between Christmas and New Year where you can't face another mince pie, and you're not too sure what to do with yourself.

Julie [00:02:38]:

So why don't you do go and do, like, a little health check on your money and go into 2024 feeling completely like you're mastering money? So that's what we've got for you today. So I think a good place to start would be our intrepid researcher, Michelle. So you did a lot of work for this episode. I know. Do you want do you want to share with us some of the ideas, some of the resources that you discovered?

Michelle [00:03:04]:

Well, it all started as it usually does with me with a little Google search, and then you just see what comes up. And The main thing for me was the first one that came up was a HSBC financial fitness test, which got me interested. Then I thought, Go on then. Let's see how I score. Now I don't know if it's the same for you ladies, but it's one of those things that when you know you're going to do these things, you actually want to score highly because of what we do as a job. It's one of those things. It's a bit like an occupational hazard that you don't want to be disappointed by what comes out. I'll have to say I was a little bit disappointed by what comes out, but we can talk about that later.

Michelle [00:03:41]:

But what it is it's very clever as it sends you through sort of a little journey, questions Ask what your monthly income is. You can do this as a person or as a household, what your expenditure is, What you are saving for, what you're not saving for, and insurances you have in place. And at the end of it, it gives you a nice score. Now one thing I will say is beware that you do need to know your numbers. So you do need to know exactly what your income is, and you do need to know exactly what your monthly bills are. And I will just be really honest. If the score doesn't come out as what you want, don't panic because there's lots of things that we will talk about that can help Pugh and Julie and I had a little competition on this one that, she scored higher than I did. But, yeah, I think it gives you a good starting point to come from.

Michelle [00:04:29]:

Did you think, Julie, when you did yours?

Julie [00:04:32]:

I'm thinking back to it. It was quite detailed. And I don't know. If I didn't do what I did. I don't know if I would have all those numbers to hand. So because I update my own cash flow plan on a fairly regular basis, I know what all my bills are. Right? And I know what my income is. I can tell you within probably 100 Pound, what's in my pension? I can tell you what my DB pensions are worth.

Julie [00:04:58]:

I can tell you what my ISAs worth. I can tell you what I've got in my savings. Right? Because I'm obviously just a wee bit of a freak like that. So what I would say with the HSBC one is your regular person We'll probably have to do a little bit of prep and getting the information together. But I think it's like anything with the more data you put in and The, you know, the robustness of the data, then the results you get are more meaningful. So I thought it was a really, really good process to go through. I know, you know, I'm just going to caveat that you have a drag factor on your score, Michelle, that I do not. Alright.

Julie [00:05:36]:

So I did score a little bit higher than Michelle, It is because I don't have 2 daughters. I have 1 very cheap to run son. So I don't know if you can trade them, and I don't know if it works like that.

Michelle [00:05:49]:

All I know is that my score will improve at some point in the future, but probably not quite soon enough to make a big difference right now. But, yeah, it it's quite interesting, isn't it, that it is about the numbers that go in and having to know them. And if they're right, you do get a pretty realistic outcome. At the end of it, you do get sort of a score report which shows you what your percentage of outgoings are against Your earnings, what your savings are against your earnings, what your total borrowings are. And then it does tell you if it can be improved or not. You know? And I and I think there aren't and to be realistic, there aren't going to be many people who won't have something that can be improved because we're all human, and That's just human nature, isn't it? That we can all work on something, but it's taking that in little chunks and working your way through it.

Julie [00:06:43]:

As you reflect on doing it completed it yourself, Michelle, and you think back to it, was there anything in particular that Struck you about it or anything that you thought, right, I'm going to take that as a away as an action.

Michelle [00:06:57]:

I think the bills, it is one thing because actually when you're writing the numbers down, it does make you think. And I know we've covered this in the podcast Before, it is important to check that you're not overpaying for things. You could change providers. You can do things. And it does make you think, actually, Can I can I get that for a bit less? And I know I've got my TV and Phone contract coming up for renewal in January. That's something I'm already looking at because I know what I'm paying now is far more than what I can pay Elsewhere, but I just need that contract to end. That might change my score, actually, so that could be really helpful. But it's those little things.

Michelle [00:07:36]:

It has prompted me to do that and to be I'm not overpaying anywhere.

Julie [00:07:41]:

Okay. A little thought's popped into my head, and maybe you 2 can help me out with this. Okay. So I have this routine that every January is when I sit down and go through all the bills and assess them to see what can I get cheaper and to shop around? So I did this last year. I was dead pleased with myself because I shaved money off my Sky bill. I shaved money off my broadband bill. And I'm like, sweet. And then the little buggers all went and ramped up their prices by inflation and then that magical three point whatever the hell for whatever the reason.

Julie [00:08:14]:

So what I'm thinking this year is instead well, 2024, is instead of doing that exercise in January, might wait and do it in in April. Because if I phone them all up and get a good deal, and let's say I'm saving 20, 30 pound, and then they all decide they're putting The cost up by 20, 30 pound. I've not actually got a deal, have I? So I might hang on to April to do my shopping around. So does that sound like a good plan? Because we did it we did an episode in this, you and me, Michelle, didn't we? Do you remember Yeah. We did.

Michelle [00:08:48]:

And I think this is so that's why that's on my mind because I was really stung when that happened. If I'm honest with you, and I could I don't come out the contract till January, so that has been on My plan to do for quite a while for some providers, but it is definitely something that, yes, the inflation increases again will have another knock on They're coming April because we've still got high inflation. How does that work for you, Sara? Do you do the same sort of thing?

Sara [00:09:14]:

Well, I don't review So much the bills I'm paying at that time of year, but usually between Christmas and New Year because, again, we have time. That's when my husband and I sit down and say, okay. How was that year? And we kind of look back of What we spent, what we said, what happened, the good stuff that happened, the bad stuff happened, and we just look at the overall plan. But I normally look at bills and things, So most of mine will come up and renew early May, so I start looking in April. So most of the house insurance, all that sort of stuff, all is due in May, And the cars are a bit later, so, yeah, I normally start looking in April. But those inflationary increases, my phone is due to be renewed. And it's funny. I was looking at that recently, and I thought, a, there might be some good sales in in the near year.

Sara [00:10:05]:

And, again, I thought I don't exactly what you just said. I don't want to start a contract just before they're about Put all the prices up. So I think that's a really big one to highlight, isn't

Julie [00:10:13]:

it? If we move on what I'm going to do then. As I think my broadband's the fast one to come up. So it's with no TV. So when I'm on the phone, so I'm trying to do the deal, I will be asking them, is this going to go up in April? Or if they say yes, obviously, I'm not doing the deal then. And I'll put a post out on Instagram in January saying, don't do the deal now. Wait till April, folks.

Sara [00:10:36]:

Yeah. Yeah. That's a good shot, that one.

Julie [00:10:40]:

Alright. So the HSBC till then. We'll put a link to it in the show notes. So if you were to sum it up in, like, 2 sentences, Michelle, what would you say about it?

Michelle [00:10:52]:

I think it gives you things to think about, but you do need to know your numbers.

Julie [00:10:57]:

Alright. Okay. So that's that was a really quite Thought out and comprehensive process, wasn't it, with HSBC?

Michelle [00:11:05]:

Yeah. Yeah. Definitely.

Julie [00:11:07]:

Uh-huh. If you're looking for a slightly lighter touch version than the HSBC one. I can't be bothered going to find out what what's in my pension and how much I'm paying on gas and electricity. We have a plan b for you everybody. Okay? And if you go on to the money to the masses website, Again, we'll put a link in the show notes. You can go through the, MOT tool that's on there. This it's similar to the HSBC c one, but it's not as in-depth or detailed. So, Sara, you've had a go with this one, I think.

Julie [00:11:40]:

Yeah? Yep. What are your thoughts?

Sara [00:11:44]:

It's very, very easy to use. Yeah. Because it doesn't take numbers in. It's not going to give you any detailed response, it will give you some ideas and some prompts of the areas where you might have some things to look at, areas of concern or some weaknesses or some gaps. But if you're not wanting to go into detail or if you think that's going to bring you out in a rush of hives, then, it it's really quick. It's really Easy, and, it's a very good early indicator to give you an idea of, okay. I've got some areas here that maybe I should be prepared to spend a bit more time on, whether it's looking us looking things up or getting some help or yeah. I thought it was really, really simple.

Sara [00:12:26]:

It's a good really good starting point, I'd have said.

Julie [00:12:29]:

Yeah. Michelle, have you had to go with this one as well?

Michelle [00:12:34]:

So I have had a go at this one, and I liked this one better. Various reasons. I think children. Drag Factor didn't come too much into this one. But, no, I did like it because it's in front of you, and it's there, and it does If you straight away, it gives you a grading so you don't get a score out of a 100. You get a grade like we used to at school. And then it does give you areas that you need to work on, areas that are okay, and areas that you're doing well, and areas that you think that you do need to work on. So no detail, no numbers, but it really just gives you some things to think about on which I quite like that.

Michelle [00:13:10]:

It is prompts that would just stick in your head.

Julie [00:13:13]:

Yeah. So I think if you're a bit rested about having a really close look at your money, I would start with this one. If you've done the HSBC one and you didn't like your score, then go and do this one because it'll be a bit more uplifting. Okay. I like I like the I think I find the language really user friendly on it as well. And it is you know, I think it's easy for everybody to look around. I've actually got mine up just in front of you at the moment. And Is it breaks things down into 3 categories.

Julie [00:13:48]:

So it's going to ask you questions about, like, sort of have you got an emergency fund? How often do you check your bills? Do you have a will? Have you updated your will? Do you have some sort of investments and pensions and blah blah blah and so on and so forth? So once it's asked you all these questions, which you don't actually need any numbers for. It's then they're going to break it down into 3 categories for you. So it's either areas that really need work, Things that are okay and then where you're doing well. And that feels good, doesn't so I'm just having a quick look. The other thing that you can do as well with it is If you're if you're comfortable giving money to the masses, your email address, they will email you an action plan off the back of that. So because That's what we want to do. We want to take action. We want to do things, don't we? So I guess, one of the questions I've got for you is, let's say, Some of the listeners have gone through this exercise because they can't face another mince pie.

Julie [00:14:46]:

And they're sitting there, and now they've got all this Data and information in front of them. And maybe they're feeling a bit overwhelmed or swamped with it, and they're like, what do we do? What would you say to them?

Sara [00:14:59]:

First thing is don't panic. Take a note down whether well, what works best for you, but try and just think of if you've Got if it's given you some 2 or 3 or even more areas of focus, just pick 1 of them. Just pick 1 of them to start with. Have a look at the detail and think, okay. What's 1 small little step or one small thing that I could do Now, to start improving that area, and it doesn't have to be anything big. It just has to be 1 little small piece of action. As long as it's something you actually do, then you'll feel good about it, and it will help you do your next do and take your next step.

Julie [00:15:42]:

Alright. Thank you for that. What about yourself, Michelle? What advice or guidance have you got for somebody that's completed Either of these 2 tools, and they're sitting there and going like, right, what do we do now? Where do we go with this?

Michelle [00:15:56]:

I think the same as Sara, it is that it's doing a little bit at a time. But, also, don't feel overwhelmed if you feel you can't correct that all at once. Because sometimes you can just it a little bit towards it, and it may come up with something like, actually, you need to add more to your emergency fund, which is one of the things that comes up. Now we talk to clients about this all the time as having some cash in reserve, but we also know we are humans. We all have families, and It's not always possible to have the emergency fund that the ideal says you should have. So as long as you're working towards it or you've got a An awareness of it. That's the main thing. Because if you've

Julie [00:16:35]:

got an awareness of it,

Michelle [00:16:36]:

it's in your head. And you you're kind of on the right path. And I have I do have this with some clients who come and see me, and they say, well, I can't do it. I said, that's fine. As long as you know and you know why you can't, Then we know where we are, and we know it's not a problem. So the same with all of these. You know? There will be things on there that you can't correct straight away. As long as you've got an awareness, That's okay.

Michelle [00:16:59]:

If you can't fix it, that's okay. It doesn't matter. It just means you're not burying your head in the sand and pretending it's not there. You know it, And you'll get there.

Julie [00:17:10]:

I think it's really interesting you've picked that one because I'm looking at my report. Oh, I'm scoring a all over the show. My thing that really needs work is the emergency fund. I have a behavioural bias when it comes to cash, And I am pretty sure this has come up on the podcast before how I totally neglect cash every now and again. And, like, I see the stock market doing rubbish, and I just want to go all in.

Michelle [00:17:36]:

I want it all. And then I'm like, yeah. You know, you meant to have

Julie [00:17:38]:

some in cash as well, Julie.

Michelle [00:17:40]:

Alright. Shit.

Julie [00:17:41]:

They're going to do that. And I But that's

Michelle [00:17:43]:

interesting because that's actually mine that came up is that I need to work on as well.

Julie [00:17:46]:

Yes. So do you mind? I and I know I've done this before, and then I have to Pull myself back and start redirecting money to cash rather than just investments. Mhmm. Oddly enough, I just started was it at the weekend? So I use Starling for, like, proper banking, but my bills go out nationwide. So I was in niche the Nationwide app, and I just saw they've got a regular sleeper with eight Percent. Like, oh, I'll have that. Thanks very much. So that's me trying to address my anti cash position.

Julie [00:18:19]:

For now. But obviously, ladies, you need to keep an eye on me for this because I'll get all excited by investments, and I'll send all my money over there and I'll forget. No, Jules. You need to keep some cash again. Adrift. Adrift. Yeah. No.

Michelle [00:18:34]:

Is it called occupational hazard for us, do you think?

Julie [00:18:38]:

Me neither. See?

Sara [00:18:40]:

Actually, we've had to actually use our emergency fund for its purpose, just a bit of it.

Julie [00:18:45]:

What was your emergency, Sara?

Sara [00:18:49]:

Car.

Julie [00:18:52]:

It's always a bloody car. Is it all fixed?

Sara [00:18:58]:

Well, waiting for the part, you know, to come in, that little story. But yes. But that was, and that so that's interesting, isn't it? But that's what it's there for. So, You know? And, actually, that's exactly what it's there for. You don't have to pick up a credit card because you've got your emergency fund. That sorts that out, and then you just You just have to remember to top up what's come out.

Julie [00:19:24]:

Because he got so used to it being there.

Sara [00:19:27]:

Then when he gets used, I did actually think, oh, I'm going to have to make sure I'm a I get back into the mindset of topping that back up again.

Julie [00:19:36]:

I think I want to go back to what you were saying as well, Michelle, about how it's scoring us for the emergency fund because we have free financial advisers. We've all come out that that's that we need to work on, aren't we? Right. But I'm going to caveat that and make the 3 of us feel a bit better and everybody else that's listening. They're going to be playing that game of insisting that you have 6 months salary in the bank, and you might not need 6 months of Salary in the bank. So we've done episodes on this on the past on what you need in an emergency fund. I will put a link to that in the show notes because It's a really personal thing. Right? Not everybody needs 3 or 6 months in the bank. So it's about working out what a good emergency fund looks like for you.

Julie [00:20:21]:

And if it's something that you're struggling with to get started, that first 50 pound is a major milestone. Yeah. And then when you hit a 100 pound, that's a milestone. But regular people don't sit there and think, I'm just going to have tens of £1,000 sitting in the bank just in case. In my experience we're regular people as well, aren't

Sara [00:20:44]:

we? Yep.

Michelle [00:20:45]:

Yeah. And I think I the way I sort of achieve it is in terms of money. And I think I've said this on the podcast before. I don't save big Sums of money at the beginning of the month. I just put a little bit in each week, which is a bit like me just pop into Tesco's and only going to buy a loaf of bread and spending 25, £30. And you come back out. And as long as I put that in there, I don't miss that. I don't see that as my savings.

Michelle [00:21:10]:

It's just gone. It is like me popping to the shop. So I have lots of little pots everywhere, which my daughter's now inherited because she does the same thing. But I have little spaces And pots everywhere where I put money, but it's a little bit at a time. So for me, I'm not missing that money. And if at the end of the month and it there does come times where sometimes I think actually I could really do without that. If I've only missed a week, I haven't missed a month's worth. I've still put 3 weeks' worth in, but that 1 week, I actually I need to use that money for something else.

Michelle [00:21:43]:

That's okay because I've still saved in the other 3 weeks of the month. If I did that monthly, you'd be inclined to go, well, I might need the rest of that, so I'll keep it and not do it.

Julie [00:21:53]:

I think that's really interesting, our path. Paint the paint

Michelle [00:21:57]:

where the work is. Yeah.

Sara [00:22:00]:

It also highlights the fact that everybody's got to do what works for them. Yeah. Yeah? But buying the rhythm that works for you. Yeah.

Julie [00:22:09]:

So, Michelle, you're little and often, aren't you? I definitely am. I'm big or go home. Go big or go home. Sara, what's your style of saving?

Sara [00:22:24]:

I do monthly. I do monthly because I have the review at the start of the month and review at the end of the month. So there's the fixed amounts that go out, and then at the end of the month, has that been a challenging month for us? For whatever reason, well, actually, has it has it? Left a bit of surplus. So, yeah, I'm a monthly.

Michelle [00:22:45]:

I could I start I started like you though, Michelle. I started weekly,

Julie [00:22:48]:

and then I graduated to monthly because I don't like FAF, because I'm lazy. Yeah. That that's yeah.

Michelle [00:22:54]:

That's I think I just definitely I kind of look at it, and there might be If I did it in lump sums, I don't know. I seem to have a real block with that in my head. I can't do that. And actually, I run my current account probably very different when I talk to my friends. They look at me and go, you do what? And I basically don't keep anything in there. Everything's in little pots everywhere else. And as I spend money, it comes in to then refill what I've spent. Does that make sense? So, actually, there's never if you look at my current account, you think, Oh, she's really poor.

Michelle [00:23:25]:

But it's not. It's because I've got it everywhere else. And then I have to justify bringing that money back in when I spend in things.

Julie [00:23:32]:

I see it. We talked about this on episode 26, budgeting. What the And you told me about this. And I can remember saying to you, I tried that, but it made me feel really anxious not seeing lots of money in my current account. And I couldn't handle that. And this is maybe about 18 months, 2 years ago. I now do it the way you do it. Really? Uh-huh.

Julie [00:23:56]:

So the money goes into my current account at the start of the month. And because I've got this, my Pete Matthews spreadsheet, it then it all goes off into little pots. Of course, it's got really convoluted. Right? So it goes off into the little parts, and then there's a little bit left in the current account. Not much. And so I'll go to Tesco. Let's say I spent 30 pound on groceries. So that then has to come out of my groceries pot and then into my credit card pot because I spent everything on the credit Oh, no.

Julie [00:24:24]:

So it's convoluted, but it's working for me.

Michelle [00:24:26]:

But it's exact that's exactly how I do it. I have to then go back and move that money back in. And for me, that I feel I've got far more control over my money than having it all sat in 1 account and just watching it go down because there's something mentally that I can't deal with that. Whereas if I keep it there, it works.

Sara [00:24:45]:

That this is really showing, which is something I feel very strongly about, is that you will need that visual thing for money. Because it wasn't like the old days where you might be able to say, well, I've only got a £100 for this week. So you could You'd have your cash in your hand, £100. So you'd know if £10 weren't there and £15 weren't there. I'm going back a long time now, aren't I? But, you know, it would but you'd physically have to hand over that money. You'd physically see what was left. You'd know what you'd expect it on. And now in this digital world, it just flies out of the account.

Sara [00:25:18]:

But by using those different spaces, That gives you a visual not only of the area. So is it groceries? Is it something else? But also then having to then move that money to pay something That almost replicates that physical handing over of money, doesn't it? Well, it doesn't in my head.

Julie [00:25:37]:

Yeah. No. No.

Michelle [00:25:38]:

It does. And I You keep track of it so much easier because you can open it up, look at the pots, look at the spaces, and go, oh, well, I've got that left for the month now. I've got that left for the month now. And then when I go shopping, I'll be thinking, okay. Well, actually, I didn't I really want that, but actually then I have to wait till next month now because I know there was only that left rather than just continually So spending on 1 account and then not having a clue where it's all gone.

Sara [00:26:02]:

Yeah.

Michelle [00:26:03]:

I mean, I'm a bit of a control freak too, to be fair, but, you know, I think It really just it just helps me, and I couldn't do it any other way. I think I would be thrown into complete chaos if someone made me not have those pots and spaces.

Julie [00:26:17]:

Right. Now, Michelle, nobody's taking your pots and spaces off of here. I've got visions of you writing to Santa asking for ex extra pots and spaces. I've been good this year. Please can I keep my pots and spaces?

Michelle [00:26:31]:

I've even Cash money box is here for things that I drop certain coins into. So there's definitely a control thing going on, but it works for me.

Sara [00:26:39]:

Yeah. And that's what works for you that's important. Yeah. Yeah.

Julie [00:26:45]:

Alright. So I'd say we we've covered a lot of ground there. We hope that you found this helpful. So the 2 resources that we would direct you to, if you're a bit like Rachel who was asking us, is there such a thing as a money MOT? As we've mentioned, the HSBC website and the tool they've got on there And the money to the masses website, you've just been given a little insight into how we manage our money and the bizarre tricks that we play with ourselves with the cash make it work. And I'm hoping that this inspires you to feel that money isn't a scary thing. It's something that you can go into 2024 being really confident about. Thinking back to what Sara and Michelle was saying, it's like, don't get overwhelmed. Pick 1 thing.

Julie [00:27:29]:

Ask yourself, how can I make that one thing just a tiny bit better? And then just work your way through it. But, yeah, I enjoyed doing the little test. So any closing thoughts from yourself, Sara?

Michelle [00:27:44]:

Give it a go.

Sara [00:27:46]:

Actually, I think also that last one, the, money fitness, The lighter touch one would actually be a really good one. If you are in a relationship and your relationship is that you live together or you share financials, That would be a really good one just to start a gentle conversation because you're not actually having to go into figures. So if ever that, you know, money conversations aren't easy with a partner, that would be a really good one because it's just areas of focus rather than So that could be a really good thing to do when you might both be off and you've got rid of the outlaws and everything else. But I think that could be a good one. Just thinking about my own Christmas that's coming up.

Julie [00:28:28]:

Oh, what about yourself, Michelle? Have you got any last thoughts for fatherlessness?

Michelle [00:28:33]:

No. I think it is just having a look. It is what works for you. If you don't like the numbers, do the money masses one. If you do like numbers and you do like detail, the c one's going to give you those figures and percentages, and it will then give you guides that can take you off to look at specific areas. Yeah. It's what it's whatever suits you. So, hopefully, we've given you 2.

Michelle [00:28:54]:

There are probably more out there, so have a look. If they don't suit you, see what else you can find. But There there's definitely 1 for each extreme of us out there.

Julie [00:29:04]:

Alright. So thank you, ladies. Thank you very much for helping us out with that. This is we hope you feel inspired. And remember, nobody has got it all boxed off. We've all got areas for development apparently. So don't feel don't feel overwhelmed by it all, but we hope that it's inspired you just to get just take a little bit of a closer look at your finance finances. But for now, I'm going to say goodbye.

Julie [00:29:31]:

I'm going to say thank you very much for listening. For