123. Single & Secure with Tamsin Caine

In this episode , the hosts, including returning founder member Tamsin Caine, explore the challenges and opportunities of managing finances as a single woman, particularly after a divorce or widowhood. They discuss the emotional and practical aspects of taking full control of finances, from setting up emergency funds to investing for the future. With a focus on empowerment, the episode covers the importance of building a support system, and the  benefits of financial planning for single individuals and the importance of having a 'money wife' for support and accountability.

GUEST EXPERT: TAMSIN CAINE is a Chartered Financial Planner and Resolution Accredited Divorce Finance Specialist (one of only 35 in the country). She hosts the Smart Divorce podcast, has cowritten a book Your Divorce Handbook It’s What You Do Next That Counts and has appeared in the national press commenting on financial issues in divorce. She is a single mum to Charlie and Zoe and is a huge rugby fan, currently managing the men’s team Sale FC Vikings.
Follow Tamsin on Instagram | Facebook and check out her podcast

00:48 Navigating Finances Solo: Insights from a Divorce Expert
02:10 The Emotional and Practical Challenges of Managing Money Alone
07:17 Gaining Confidence and Knowledge in Financial Independence
10:47 The Divorce Process: A Path to Financial Literacy
23:18 Financial Resilience and Protection for Single Women
26:06 The Value of Income Protection
28:21 Building Financial Resilience: Emergency Funds
36:00 The Importance of a Financial Support System
38:18 Navigating Financial Planning as a Single Parent

95 - Income Protection
28 - Emergency Funds

YOUR HOST

Julie Flynn is an experienced independent financial adviser and financial coach. Justice and equality drive Julie. Which is why she’s spent years studying and researching how stress affects our financial decision making.

Julie is best known for her work with women who have lost their partner and coaching financial services business who want to implement fair and transparent charges.
Ebb & Flow Financial Coaching | Bree Wealth & Tax | Instagram


CO-HOSTS
Emily Pool is a Financial Planner and Will Writer. She is passionate about empowering people to invest their wealth (pensions and savings) sustainably and in line with their personal values.

Michelle Lambell  started her career in financial services as a Stockbroker in 1999 undertaking both advisory and discretionary investment management. Today she is a Chartered Financial Planner, specialising in retirement planning advice, pensions and investments and a Certified Financial Coach. 

Transcript

Julie [00:00:13]:

give me a thumb, Michelle? I think I've got thumbs. I've got thumbs all over the show. Okay. Right. Welcome back to this episode of the Women and Money Cafe. And it's a bit of a cool one today because those of you who were with us from the very start will recognize we've got one of the founder members back with us today. So along with myself, Michelle, and Emily on the sofa today, we've got the wonderful Tamsin Kane. Hello, Tamsin.

Julie [00:00:39]:

Hello. Thank you for having me back. Welcome back to the cafe. We've missed you. We've revamped since you were here. We've done it in different colours now.

Tamsin [00:00:50]:

You want me to say it?

Julie [00:00:51]:

It looks lovely.

Tamsin [00:00:52]:

Looks it looks beautiful. Very, I don't even know what colour it is. What colour is it? Blue. That's good because we all look quite, like, we've all got blue backgrounds, so it does look like we're in a blue Cafe, so that's all good.

Julie [00:01:07]:

Alright. So we've got Tamsyn back with us today because we were bringing Women different ideas and what we could talk to you about. And I think one of the things that we don't talk about that much, and this is going to be relevant to a lot of you that are listening, I think, is what it's like doing money when it's just you. When you don't have a partner, you don't have anybody to fall back on and it's just you. And, obviously, everybody that's been with us for a while will know that Tamsyn, you're

Tamsin [00:01:36]:

our divorce expert, aren't

Julie [00:01:37]:

you? Indeed. So you've got experience of just seeing women and men navigate what it's like this transition to having been part of a financial unit, and then all of a sudden having to do it on your own. Obviously, I work with widows. And, Michelle, you've got a lot of experience just personally having done both sides, haven't you?

Michelle [00:01:57]:

I have. A bit a bit of mix and match throughout my life. Yes.

Julie [00:02:00]:

And at some point in the cons in the podcast, we may get Michelle to explain how she's kind of married. But we'll that's maybe one that we'll come back to later. And I've got Emily with me today as well. So, Emily, how are you today?

Emily [00:02:14]:

I'm good apart from that terrible experience I told you about earlier, but never mind. Day can only get better.

Julie [00:02:21]:

We just want to put a big thank you to whoever it was that found Emily's car keys and put them somewhere safe for her. Alright. So just to kick us off, Tams, just do you want to give us a broad overview of kind of things that you've seen with the women that are going through divorce, and then suddenly they find themselves having to manage money and financial life on their own.

Tamsin [00:02:45]:

Yeah. Absolutely. I think, fear. Just going through any kinds of relationship breakdown, there's always that fear of what it's going to be like next. And that's kind of the sort of overwhelming feeling across many different aspects. But going into doing money on your own, do you know what, even if you've looked after the money, even if you're any of the 4 of us, if all of a sudden you go from being in a team, in a marriage or in a relationship where you're both parties to sorting out all the money that if you lose your job, somebody else will step up. If things go horribly wrong, someone else will step up. Going from that teamwork to suddenly being on your own, even if you know all about money and you know how to pay bills and you know how to research insurance and you know how to sort out bank accounts and you're the money person in that relationship, it's still absolutely terrifying to suddenly find yourself in that being completely responsible for everything in your household all on your shoulders.

Tamsin [00:04:00]:

That's pretty scary.

Julie [00:04:03]:

Yeah. And I think that's one of the things that I see having experienced it myself as well, but also with the women that I work with, it is that when you've been if you've been in a relationship, then all of a sudden you are solely responsible. Do you know the I Money of the things I remember going through my head after I broke up with Brian And it was that the idea, it was like, shit, if I get this wrong, it's all on me. Whereas before, if we got something wrong, it was shared accountability, but now it is 100% completely my fault. And that that was a bit of a barrier to push through.

Tamsin [00:04:47]:

Yeah. Yeah. I get that. I get that. I think I think with us, with you and me and with Michelle and Emily, we at least know about money though. That's our daily lives. We spend our entire lives talking to people about money. But if you put yourself in the shoes of somebody who's never looked after money, who's kind of gone, that's not my thing, don't really know about it, don't really understand it, The person that I'm in a relationship with is more than happy to take that role in our, in our team and look after it all.

Tamsin [00:05:24]:

You can kind of sit back and go, well, that's their job. I'm going to do x, y, z instead. And so many people find themselves in that position. And I know it's not 1950 and please don't misunderstand and think that I think it is, but there are still quite traditional roles in a lot of marriages, even now, even in 2024. And I see it all the time where perhaps the woman in the relationship has had the children, has brought up the children. That's been the focus of her world. And he's gone. That's okay.

Tamsin [00:06:04]:

I'll look after the money. You don't need to worry about it. I'll just I'll take that off your hands and out of your will. And I'm not suggesting because that sounds a bit like financial abuse, and I don't want those two things to get mixed up because it isn't necessarily an abusive thing. It's more of a I I'm a I'm good with this bit in my role. I'm not stopping you having anything to do with it. I'm just it's just part of our team roles and this is my thing. And if you've had that and suddenly Cafe someone goes, oh, yeah.

Tamsin [00:06:41]:

Relationship's broken down. I'm not doing that that anymore. It's all yours. I mean, you might as well need to learn brain surgery overnight. You know, that's a proper fear thing.

Julie [00:06:54]:

I think as well, given the circumstances of the with the people that you're working with as well is they're probably not at their finest hour, would it be fair to say? And they're not functioning cognitively at the highest level of their life. Is that a reasonable conclusion to reach?

Tamsin [00:07:13]:

Yeah. It might be a bit harsh to say they're not. But they're certainly their emotions are heightened, and that perhaps their decision making isn't necessarily, at its best and might well be being guided more by emotion than by, clarity and, reasoning. So, yeah, that's absolutely fair to fair to say.

Julie [00:07:41]:

Alright. So what I'm wondering is then, you know, if you've got someone in this situation and let's take the extreme example where they're not the person that managed the finances. And now all of a sudden, this is a new skill that they need to learn. So what I'm thinking is that there are 2 aspects to this and correct me if I'm wrong, is like that there's confidence and there's knowledge and, you know, there's possibly an absence of both. So how, how do you help people sort of get the confidence and get the knowledge? Well, what tips have you got for people?

Tamsin [00:08:16]:

Probably Money comes as a result of the other. So I would say with knowledge is comes confidence, doesn't it? You know, things that we know about mean that we suddenly feel more happy dealing with things. I do think to an extent that divorce process can kind of help because you have to fill in an absolutely revolving form called the for me, which is terribly long, terribly involved, and requires you to know lots of financial information that most people say to scratch their heads about. But the resulting factor of having to fill that in means that you are getting to grips with the money that is at least in your book. And then you need to fill out a budget plan or an expenditure document. So you need to start thinking about what money you spend. So we support our clients with completing it for Money, with filling out what money they need, what so how they've lived their lives. So lots of people say, well, what do what do normal people spend on x y z? Normal people.

Tamsin [00:09:29]:

Well, normal people don't exist unfortunately because we all spend different amounts of money. I reckon if you even said around the 4 of us, let's say, what do you spend a year on clothes? All 4 of us have got properly different answers. So there isn't, this is what normal people spend. And, also, divorce is about needs. It's about your ongoing lifestyle. So it's about what you've been spending. It's about what your lifestyle looks like. So we dig quite deeply.

Tamsin [00:10:03]:

We go through people's bank statements if necessary, and we talk about what lifestyle looks like, and we gradually ease people into the idea of them looking after money. We tend to work with people on an ongoing basis throughout their divorce and there'll be times where there's lots of stuff to do with the divorce because there's a report that needs instructing and we need to talk all the time about what the letter of instruction should look like. But during that time, there's often months where there's nothing much happening because the report's being written or there's some legal work going on in the background. And we tend to spend that time in teaching people about pensions, in teaching people about investments, kind of encouraging them and giving them some confidence around money that they haven't necessarily understood before.

Julie [00:10:56]:

Right. You know what's really interesting? As I'm listening to you talk there right at the start, what popped into my head is I it's a question I see asked quite a lot on Facebook groups where you've got a woman who is unhappy in the relationship but hasn't got a clue about money and doesn't know how to get out. And what I'm taking away from what you've just said there is actually the divorce process actually helps you start to learn about the money. It starts to give you the skills and the knowledge to be able to go on and build that financial life on your own. So I suspect probably a lot of women are sitting there thinking, I want out this relationship, but I don't know how to do it. And the money, it's too overwhelming, so I'm going to do nothing. And I'm going to stay here until it becomes really untenable. But what you're saying is if you start the process, that's when you start to pick up the knowledge and the experience and the confidence.

Tamsin [00:11:47]:

Yeah. I think there's certainly can be some of that. I think there's I'm going to add a big note of caution in that, in the divorce isn't a magic money trade. There isn't suddenly somebody's going to, like, find money out of nowhere that's not existed before and drop that in your lap. It's hard. And you go from having to have enough money to fund 1 house to having enough money to fund 2 houses. And that's not that doesn't suddenly mean that that money appears from nowhere. It doesn't.

Tamsin [00:12:24]:

There are going to be some changes that need to be made. If money is really, really tight now, you're not going to find that divorce is going to resolve that unless you do things differently. So yes, if you're in a relatively well off relationship and there's money around, yes, I think that you will be okay. The divorce process can help to an extent. There is what you do in the interim, Money, again, almost every couple or every individual that I work with is different and their divorce is different and the way it is resolved gets is different. And the way that that relationship deals with those first early stages can be different. So in a lot of cases, the bills will continue to be paid. The mortgage will continue to be paid.

Tamsin [00:13:22]:

Money will continue to be made available to both parties, and they're all okay. And then everything gets settled at the point of the divorce. There are people who go, I'm not paying anything now. It's all on you. So you kind of need to know what you're stepping into before you like, don't think that if you're in a position where you think someone's going to go, I'm not paying for anything anymore, that that leaving is going to suddenly resolve that because I'm afraid it's not. So whilst I think the divorce process can help you learn about money, there are still things you need to do and steps you need to take and considerations you need to have before you walk out the door.

Julie [00:14:08]:

Alright. Thanks for the word of call.

Tamsin [00:14:09]:

Although I'm not saying I'm not saying stay in a really poor relationship because of the money because of them dying. It's not necessarily the right thing to do either.

Julie [00:14:18]:

No. What you're saying is go into it with your eyes Women. Yeah. Alright. So I'm just curious then. You know, we've heard from Tamsyn there a little bit about what it's like to how the divorce process can sort of set you up for a single financial life. Michelle, you I'm just wondering because you've experienced both. Are there any sort of notable differences that you could think of that would be helpful to share? What would you be slightly married? So I

Michelle [00:14:52]:

do need to clarify. I am married. It's just that we keep our finances fairly separate just because we have both been married before, and I think we've both been burnt financially before and I think it helps us to both keep an element of control over what we both do and spend. You know, we do talk about Money. You know, obviously, we do that, but we don't share bank accounts and we don't share we have our own bills and we deal with it that way. And I think that's helped. I went into my second marriage with my eyes open about that because after my divorce, and I think fear is a big thing, actually should I stay in this marriage because how can I manage on my own? I Women out of the workplace for a while when I was at home with the children and it was quite a scary prospect actually if I leave this What will happen to me? Where will I live? How will I pay for everything? And how will that happen? It wasn't the most amicable experiences so it was quite bumpy financially but I think as Tamzin was saying I did build confidence over that time because one I had to step out of my comfort zone Women I particularly didn't want to. But I then then actually I can do that.

Michelle [00:16:08]:

Okay. The next bit. Can I deal with this? And I was suddenly in, you know, Jennifer system. How does that work? I'd never had to navigate the Jennifer system but as a single mum of 2, I suddenly had an appointment to go and see what could I claim, what couldn't I, just to live. But I think it did let me build my confidence and actually I felt most empowered when I suddenly then had control of my own money. I hadn't been in that position for Money, many years. So to suddenly have control of my own money and actually think, well, I'm going to buy that. That's my choice.

Michelle [00:16:46]:

It's my money that I'm spending. There's no one else spending the money. It's just me. And I think that's what has kept us the way I am in my current marriage. I have only been married twice, by the way, my current marriage. And, you know, it's very much that we have our own Money. If we buy something, it's our choice to buy it. But we also have our shared responsibilities about housing and, you know, our Emily living, which we do share, but if I want to buy something else, I can.

Michelle [00:17:18]:

But that works for me. It doesn't work for everybody. But because of my previous experience, that works really well for me. So that's my kind of married analogy for money.

Julie [00:17:29]:

Do you know what I like there is you've given us the flip side there because on the one hand, being single, it's all on you. All the responsibility's on you, and there's no fallback plan. But at the same time, there's nobody else you need to keep happy or you need to be accountable to. You get to do exactly what you want. So there are flip sides to this as well. So I just wondered, Emily, is there any observations that you would like to share?

Emily [00:17:55]:

Can you hear me okay? Because I am still having issues with my microphone. Okay. Good. That's good. No. I would just say take my hats off to all of you because, yeah, I mean, I haven't done it on my own, but, I do so Can you hear me? I do think that, you know, we all need to take a little bit of an empowerment tip and listen to you ladies and understand that it is possible. You've just got to get through that initial stage, haven't you, where you're sort of doubting yourself and you think that, oh my goodness. I can't do this on my own.

Emily [00:18:31]:

You can because you guys have, and I know that you're more financially astute than many. But, you know, how many times have we told ourselves we can't do anything, and we just need to add that one little word at the end, don't we? It's yet. Just got to, you know, buckle down and get through it and learn and see it as a learning experience, really. Yeah. Great. You've done an amazing job, ladies.

Julie [00:18:55]:

Great. Thank you. It was Emily good to celebrate us. I think what's interesting though is so far we've talked about the position, you know, if you started up as you were part of a couple, whether you know, it's divorce or widowhood. It's like there's plenty of women out there, though, that are quite happily chosen to be single. And so they're like, why are all these people whining and bitching about all these men or women that they've got out their life? Right? Because I'm doing all I'm on and I'm loving it. But there are there are still challenges, I think, to being single even if it's through choice. So even things like, you know, being able to buy a home when there's only Money income as opposed to 2 incomes, that's just, that's just hard and like planning for emergencies and building up an emergency fund Women you've got 2 incomes contributing to it rather than 1? It just feels like everything just takes a little bit longer.

Julie [00:19:46]:

Or is that just me?

Tamsin [00:19:48]:

Yep. I'm with you. We're going to get onto one of my massive bugbears.

Julie [00:19:54]:

Oh, I love a bugbear. Come on, Hamza. Let's have it.

Tamsin [00:20:00]:

So this and it this is not around single people with no children, I'm afraid, but this is the single people with children. So it's about the removal of child benefit. It's just rude eventually because if you earn $50 and you're a single parent, which is already flipping hard enough, you start getting your child benefit removed when you earn more than that. If there were 2 of you in your household, you could each earn $50 and you keep your child benefit. And worse than that, if the Money person on their own was earning the double, I. E. The $100, not only would they have their child benefit been completely removed, but they'd also be taxed to high heaven on the extra $50 that they'd be earning. And it just feels so Flynn unfair.

Tamsin [00:21:01]:

I'll get off my high horse now. Oh no, keep going. I'm with you.

Julie [00:21:05]:

I'm with you on this. Oh, yeah. I haven't been in that situation myself where I've got friends that, as couples, when Brian and I were together, because Brian didn't work, their household income far outstripped ours, but they get child benefit and I don't. And I'm like, okay, that's, that's quite annoying. Isn't it? But I think it's even the, the financial resilience you have when you're single. So that, you know, if, if I lose my job or my ability to work, there's nobody else there that can step up and do a few more hours. It's just I'm trying to find a polite word. All I can come up with is stuffed.

Tamsin [00:21:52]:

And it's Well, it's on you. It's on you, isn't it? There is no you have no choice. Like, you have to sort it out. There is even in, Michelle's kind of marriage situation, I'm quite sure if she lost her job, actually, even only being kind of married and having separate finances, I'm sure that her husband would zap up and go, it's alright. We've got it covered. You know, I'll pay bills for the next few months. Actually, if you're not kind of married or married, it's on you. There is nobody else who's going to step up and pay those bills.

Tamsin [00:22:33]:

It's it feels like a massive responsibility. And I have wondered, okay, this is my, like, my wondering back to the 1950s parents, like, is this something that men in traditional marriages, is that responsibility weighing heavily on them in the same way that it feels that it weighs heavily on? No, if you've had an agreement, if you've gone, 'Okay, you, you leave your career, you bring up the children, are they feeling the same way, responsibility that we do as single women, single Women? Do they?

Julie [00:23:12]:

I suspect they probably do. I just think that when I'm having this conversation with single Women, and they do tend to be read about my age as well that I'm having this conversation. I wish. You made me lose track of what I was going to say now.

Emily [00:23:30]:

Having conversation with women.

Julie [00:23:32]:

No, Jeremy. Trinchy. You're just about 30 years out, Tamsyn. No. Like, I think especially for myself as well, and I think we've touched on this on the podcast before is I am insured up to the health for, like, all the health stuff. So I've got critical illness. I've got the income protection. I've done everything I can to make sure that if for whatever reason I'm not able to work, that we've got financial security.

Julie [00:24:00]:

I think it's a well known fact that me and my emergency fund, it's a love hate relationship. But it's just, it's these are the things that we need to think about a little bit more because we don't have that backup. So I'm just wondering if there's anything anybody else wants to contribute to that about what else we do as single women to make ourselves more financially resilient for emergencies.

Michelle [00:24:23]:

I think also when you're considering things like protection and, as part of why do I also you know, I've dealt with quite a few people who've been divorced, you know, getting divorced or have been divorced and they'll often say, I don't have the money to pay for that protection. I don't have that. And whilst you can totally appreciate that is then trying to demonstrate to them actually what would happen and what the consequences are if an event happened, what that would mean financially. And sometimes that can really change their thinking. They have to just see the consequence. You have to kind of work through the scenario with them. It's the same with friends, isn't it? If they say, I'm not spending money on that. If you actually work through the scenario with them and say, if you can work, it would cost this, this, and this.

Michelle [00:25:07]:

Sometimes that's enough of a sort of reality check to go, okay. I maybe I need to find that in my budget and maybe reduce something else because that is really important. And I think we don't place enough emphasis on protection, particularly when you're single or you've got responsibilities, you know, like children and things like that.

Julie [00:25:31]:

And I think I probably spent, I'm guesstimating here. I think my insurance is maybe all of them, because this is life cover as well. I'm maybe spending about £150 a Money, but £150 a month versus having a husband. I would rather spend £150 a month. You know, when you put it it's all to do with context and how you frame these things, isn't it

Tamsin [00:26:08]:

I think you're I think you're right. I think there's prob it's probably worth saying that you can have some financial protection that is probably enough for you without spending £150 a month for those people that

Julie [00:26:26]:

are terrified. I did say I'd gone to tone on it.

Tamsin [00:26:31]:

You did. You did. And I get that. And if you can if you can go to town on it, wonderful. But I for me, as the single people, life insurance is not necessarily top of the list of things that you desperately need. I would say critical illness isn't nice to have if you can have it and you can afford some even if you can afford a bit. And it's not necessarily going to get rid of the whole mortgage, but there's a bit that can do something, that's good to have. But I think income protection, which is it seems to be this is going to sound the oddest thing I think I've ever said in my life, but it feels like a very depreciated, financial protection to me.

Tamsin [00:27:17]:

Like, it's so important if you're single to protect your income if you're not able to work. And it will pay out for any like, it's still it's not it's not illness specific. It's not going to go, you've not got the right illness. We're not paying out. Most income protection policies are really comprehensive and they'll pay out if it can't work. Money of my friends has just had 5 years off work with, recovering from breast cancer, and she's not been ill lying in the bed that whole time. She's not been having, in therapy or radiotherapy that whole time, but she's it's given her that freedom to be able to get better and not have to and she's a single mom. She's got she's got a child who's 20 now.

Tamsin [00:28:07]:

And it's like just that bit of peace of mind to be able to pay the mortgage, pay the bills, and be able to get better. It's worth its weight in gold. And if you if that's going to cost you, maybe not due to these crazy £150 a month, but even £50 a month. Like, I know people who spend £50 a month very easily on coffee. Mumm. Like, or a few glasses of wine. You know? It's like these are really important. If the worst happens, it's so important.

Tamsin [00:28:38]:

So, yeah, a mecca in what Michelle said. Nope. I'm not doing that.

Julie [00:28:42]:

For the record, I think my income protection is £65 a month. I think a critical illness is about £50 a month. The rest is on life cover and private medical insurance. So

Tamsin [00:28:55]:

Just dancing.

Julie [00:28:56]:

No. I just really went to town. No. It's just it's what makes me feel safer and more secure. Right. But I didn't do it all at once. I did Money bit at a time. So I did the income protection.

Julie [00:29:07]:

That was well, I had life cover. That's the first thing I did because I have a child and I have a mortgage. Then I got income protection. Then I got critical illness. So, yeah, a little bit at a time. I think you're right. So don't freak people. You don't need to spend as much as I do.

Julie [00:29:22]:

Is there anything else that we would add to think about, you know, without building resilience and being prepared for emergencies as a single Women? Or are we covered? I think I

Tamsin [00:29:33]:

think it's worth having a guide as to an emergency fund because that emergency fund, it seems to be a puzzling thing to lots of people. It's like, well, what is it? How much should I have in it? What's an emergency? And it's like, well, an emergency is whatever an emergency is to you. Like, it could be losing your job. It could be your boiler breaking. It could be your car breaking down, and it's just having a pot of money that's available to get you out of that emergency situation. And then if you've had to spend some of it, build it back up again. And it's again, it's not you can't do that overnight necessarily. It might take you time to build it back up again, but it's there for whatever you consider to be an emergency.

Tamsin [00:30:22]:

And I don't know what you ladies would think, but I would say, like, about 6 to 12 months worth of my normal expenditure is about the right amount to have in your emergency fund. That doesn't need to be a year's worth of income because, remember, your income's tax. So it's a yeah. I would say it is worth what you spend each month.

Julie [00:30:44]:

Yeah. We did a whole episode on emergency funds, so I will put a link to that in the show notes. We also had Catherine Knowles on talking to us about income protection for women. I will put a link to that in the show notes because people if you come away from this podcast episode doing one thing, if I could have you do one thing, it would be looking to income protection. So go and listen to that episode and then investigate it. That's your call to action in the middle of the episode, folks. Alright.

Emily [00:31:13]:

I was just going to say, I saw a client yesterday who, unfortunately, obviously, like the rest of us, her investments have not been doing brilliantly. And, she said, what do you suggest I do? Should I go and get a man? And I do think

Julie [00:31:34]:

that how high my eyebrows went there.

Emily [00:31:38]:

I do think if you learn anything from this podcast today, learn that a man is not going to be the answer. Yeah. You can do it in your own, ladies.

Tamsin [00:31:47]:

You didn't say yes then.

Emily [00:31:49]:

No. I said, no.

Julie [00:31:53]:

Sorry. I've got a blog called Women is not a financial plan. Yeah. I will put a link to that also in the show notes. Okay. So, yeah, moving on. Yeah. So Emily's tip, if everything else goes wrong, go get a man or a woman, whatever you prefer.

Julie [00:32:13]:

But before, I was going to say right Money Or lottery ticket. Or lottery ticket. This is some alternative financial planning going on.

Tamsin [00:32:24]:

That's the next vlog, Julie. No. You're good.

Julie [00:32:29]:

Thanks for the content ideas, Emily. Thank you. Alright. Now what I was going to say is, like, moving on. So we've talked about let's build solid kind of financial foundations. Let's get some security emergency funds insurance. Let's figure out how to do all this money ourselves. And it's then right, okay.

Julie [00:32:43]:

So looking to the future, what's it when you're trying to plan for the future, be it saving or investing for retirement or later life, What do we think the differences are there doing that as a single person versus being part of a couple? Because I actually think there's some benefits to this, but I'm curious to hear what you guys think. You're nodding Tams and what it what have you got for me?

Tamsin [00:33:07]:

Lots of benefits, aren't there? Because you can do it your way and do what you want and fun. I do think and I'm not going to sit here and go, yeah, if you're married, you should go and get divorced because it's the best thing ever. It it's not and there are lots of downsides to it. However, should you be in the position where you get into both of your relationships come to an end, Actually, close that chapter and then you're starting with a completely blank page. You have the opportunity to completely plan the next chapter of your life to be whatever you want it to be. And you don't have to compromise on the things that you want because of somebody else. And that sounds really self centred and it is, but why not? You know, you compromise a lot when you're in a couple and to not have to do that anymore, you can write your own bucket list, You can your financial plan should look like all the things that you want to do with the rest of your life.

Julie [00:34:13]:

I don't think that sounds offensive, but that could just be me. That could just be me. What? I think one of the obvious benefits, I think, of, like, longer term planning, so let's say for retirement being single as opposed to being part of a couple, is that when you're in a couple, things accidentally happen. So somebody else's pension accidentally gets more attention than someone else's pension. Someone accidentally has the career break and their pension doesn't get contributed. Somebody accidentally ends up with a much bigger pension than the other person. Whereas when you're on your own, it's just you, and you don't have to sacrifice any of it. You're not getting distracted because it's only ever been your pension pot, so you're focused purely on your pension pot.

Julie [00:35:00]:

And you haven't got this distraction of, well, it'll be okay because I've got mine. And I hate that when I've heard so many women say to me that a financial adviser said to them, Poole be alright, love. Your husband's got a really good pension. You just need to scrape me off the ceiling when I hear stuff like that. So it's like that we're avoiding that situation when we're on our own, which I'm a bit of a fan of. Are there are there any downsides to planning for the future on your own that that we can think of?

Emily [00:35:32]:

Yeah. I mean, I've got a client who just very recently sent me a message to say, she doesn't think she can afford to pay into a pension at the moment. And, that that disheartened me because I think you've got to be careful of the story you tell yourself. If you are a single parent, don't tell yourself that you don't deserve that pension. You still do, and you still have to find some money, you know, however small. You've still got to pay yourself attention. It's that self care thing, I think. I do think that, yeah, be careful what story you tell yourself.

Julie [00:36:13]:

Alright. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this, Michelle and Tamsyn, because what I'm thinking is it's a bit like the approach we take with the emergency fund. Okay. Nobody's got, like, tens of 1,000 of pounds that can just go and stick in the bank account and have as an emergency fund. Nobody starts there. And, like, not everybody can be afford to be putting in 4 or £500 a month into their pension. And right now, people probably are looking at their outcomes and trying to cut back. And when you see maybe a couple of £100 going into pension, you're thinking, woah.

Julie [00:36:43]:

I could so do with that being in my budget right now. Rather than taking it down to 0, just reduce it a bit so you've still got some going in because it's that mentality that I'm still saving for my retirement. Because I think going to 0 and then with the attitude, well, once things are better, I'll start up again, I think your likelihood of success is much less than if you just reduce what you're putting into it. Am I making sense?

Michelle [00:37:09]:

Yeah. I think it's about compromise, isn't it? And it's about having an idea of what you do want in the future. And I think also as a single person, I think it's useful to have a friend, sort of a money friend, that you can have accountability to and discuss things with because sometimes if you do it yourself you can get yourself all wound up and you go around in circles and justify why you should or shouldn't do something. But if you've got someone you trust that you can talk openly with about money, you've got someone then who's got accountability, you've got accountability too, and you can say, I've got this situation. What do you think? And it just gives you that open discussion to talk about things. They can I think you need to consider something else? And I think when you're in a in a couple or, you know, you've got that other person naturally there that you can have those conversations with and they and they happen usually automatically because situations arise. But when you're on your own, you don't. And I think when I was going through it, for me, it was it was my mum.

Michelle [00:38:25]:

I've always been very open with my mum about Money, and at the time, I would go to her and say, what do you think? I didn't go to my dad funny enough because my dad was like, you know, this is how you do things. This is what we do. Whereas my mom probably listened to me more, let me do what you would do in a couple and I'm like, well, there's this and there's this and there's this and then she would encourage me to think

Julie [00:38:48]:

of the answer for myself.

Michelle [00:38:49]:

So I think having like a money best friend or a money relative you can talk to and you've got an agreement that that's okay, and you can do it back to them, you can be that person for them as well, but it just gives you that bit more confidence and that bit more support. Because I think sometimes we all need support because we can talk ourselves out of anything if we try.

Julie [00:39:09]:

Yeah. The phrase that's popped into my head is a money wife. We need a money wife. I don't know if that's a thing. Maybe it should become a thing. You were nodding along there agreeing with what Michelle was saying, Tamsin.

Tamsin [00:39:22]:

I was just thinking I have a I have a CrossFit wife at the gym. Money is the money wife as well. And I know that she'd be the person I'd be picking, but, anyway, laughter. No. I think that I'll say I think that's very spot on. I do think I think there are there are priorities, though. I think sometimes we're like, yes. You should pay get your emergency fund sorted.

Tamsin [00:39:48]:

Yes. You should take protection out. Yes. You should pay into your pension. And, yes, in an ideal world, of course, you could do you should do all of these things, and that would be brilliant. But there are times as a single parent that we do have to prioritize and that actually there isn't enough money to go around all of the things that we wanted to do. You know, over the last few years, interest rates have shot up. People are paying huge amounts more on their mortgages and on their rent.

Tamsin [00:40:18]:

And at some point, something does have to give. And if it's having to give at the minute a bit and you have been to reduce pension contributions and, like, don't beat yourself up about it because it is all on you and just pull yourself back around when things when things ease off a bit. But I do think there's that, like, all this you should be doing x, y, zed just leads to this guilt that I'm not doing a good enough job as a single Money because I'm not doing all of these things. And I would hate anyone to listen to the podcast and feel they're not doing a good job because they will be.

Julie [00:40:57]:

Absolutely. Hear, hear. Yeah. Yeah. It's all about doing little small steps, Money bit at a time. It's the elephant. It's like, how do you eat the elephant? We're not eating the whole thing all at once. Absolutely.

Julie [00:41:09]:

I'm glad you said that. What else have we covered? I think one of the things that you would just say, Michelle, I think that's really important about what I'm now calling your money wife, is that idea of having a support system so that you have got people that you can bounce ideas off, that you can go to when you're struggling with some something. I think that I don't think we can underestimate the importance of having someone to talk to about money and just and just the future. So, like, so with the women that you work with, Tamzin, have you what patterns have you seen that they kind of follow that starts to build up this network of support for them?

Tamsin [00:41:53]:

I guess I think that as financial planners, we're probably the money life to all of our clients. That's kind of that is that is what we do. I had a really interesting discussion at the weekend. There was an old friend who was telling me all about how, they didn't really understand the benefit of the of financial adviser. No hair calls up yet. And I was like, alright, okay. Why do you think that's better? And they were like, well, you know, they just seem to pick the same funds for different for all of the people. And I'm like, hang Money, I think we might be talking about different things.

Tamsin [00:42:39]:

And I think the job that we all do as financial planners is not about that. It's about being someone's accountability. It's about helping them plan for the future. It's about helping them to choose the decisions, like extensively educated decisions that we're all making. In terms of patterns of people that I work with, I've kind of likened divorce to Caterpillar going into a chrysalis. And I think that the divorce process itself is very much like the chrysalis part. But I do find that people do, as they come out of divorce, crow wings and start to learn to fly. And for me, going from the person that I first met in most instances who was sobbing their heart out on the Teams call.

Tamsin [00:43:46]:

And I've got a symbolic box of tissues in my office, to remind me of when I used to see people face to face, and that was always the first meeting we had was always the other person crying. And I promise it wasn't me reducing them to tears. But to go from that, to, to see them, like, really fly, I've got clients who've started their own businesses, who were, traveling around the world, who bought cabin cabins and taking their kids on experiences they've never had before, who were just doing some amazing things. And it isn't always even big things. Some of it's just they're taking control of their own lives and they've, they've gone and got a job or they they've managed to save some money or they've renovated a house or, you know, any of these things, they're doing things on their own, and it is it's such a joy to watch that pattern become the butterfly pattern. That's the that's the real joy.

Julie [00:44:45]:

That was very uplifting. Thank you.

Tamsin [00:44:49]:

I didn't

Julie [00:44:49]:

mean to say surprise. That. No. But I think I think what you were saying though because people that listen to the podcast know that I don't normally promote financial advice. Right? I just like very much you can all you go out there and you do it all yourself. Here's a podcast. It tells you how to go and open a pension. Right? But I'm going to agree with you, Tamsin.

Julie [00:45:12]:

This is the one the one of the big functions that we do provide. Anybody can open a pension, start a pension. It really isn't that bloody hard. But the value of working with 1 of ours is having that decision partner. Somebody that's going to collaborate with you, that will give you the information you need so you can start to make informed decisions for yourself. That trusted person that you can go to. Because I know, Michelle, you were saying you were talking to your mom and as I was listening to you talking there, I was trying to imagine, imagine myself talking to someone about money like that. And I found it really hard because what I actually need is a financial adviser.

Tamsin [00:45:55]:

Yep.

Julie [00:45:58]:

Oh, so

Tamsin [00:45:58]:

Money someone.

Julie [00:46:02]:

So, like so as Samson was saying, we don't pick investment funds. Alright? Or if you've got one that that is what they do, that's not who we do it, and I'm not going to comment any further than that. Somebody else says something so I don't get myself into trouble.

Tamsin [00:46:20]:

I'll say something.

Julie [00:46:21]:

Go ahead, Emily.

Emily [00:46:24]:

Well, yeah, one other very obvious thing, a client said to me the other day, I don't think I can afford to pay advice fees because look what's happened to my investments. They've gone down. So I need to cut the cost going through the investments. Well, the thing is if I hadn't been there, I should have sold out those investments. And you know what happens when you sell out of investments when the markets are down. So, yeah, the we just as financial planners, we just bring so much more value than picking funds. Definitely.

Julie [00:46:57]:

Alright. I not too delicately put it that I'm here to stop you doing anything stupid.

Tamsin [00:47:02]:

Yeah. Yeah.

Julie [00:47:05]:

That's my job. Let's not do anything stupid together.

Emily [00:47:08]:

And I

Michelle [00:47:08]:

think if we're all honest too as, you know, as financial planners, we all talk to our colleagues. We all talk to our friends who are also so we're not immune from asking questions. We will go and ask our friends. They just happen to be financial planners. You know? So we're still getting a perspective on something. It's just that we're in that world and there's bits we will know and bits we don't know. But we don't know everything and it is really important that we go to the people that we know and ask because we can get it wrong just as easily as other people when it's to do with our life. That's the really important bit because we don't see it through the same lens.

Julie [00:47:47]:

We've got I mean, you're so right. Because we've got such a good pool of trusted decision partners. Cafe pension question, everybody knows I'm following up with Michelle. Divorce situation, I'm phoning Townsend. Ethical stuff, I'm phoning Emily. Dead people, you guys are phoning me.

Tamsin [00:48:03]:

We've all got our issues. Absolutely. It's funny. The thing about Money, it's like, it's like looking after your own children. When you've got like, your own kids know what buttons to press. So if you're looking after them, the emotions are all involved and it's so much harder. You look after somebody else's kids for a couple of hours, it's easier than anything because there's no emotional bit. I've got to say Money is exactly the same with the she wrote stuff.

Tamsin [00:48:35]:

It's really hard to have to ask yourself the difficult questions to have those conversations. And think even as financial planners, we should all have our, what did you call them, Money wise? Should all have you money wise.

Julie [00:48:51]:

Let's get t shirts made. This is a thing now.

Tamsin [00:48:54]:

T shirt. I'm yeah. Definitely. I think that's the thing.

Julie [00:48:59]:

Alright. So as we kind of bring this episode towards a close, I'm just going to ask each of you what your kind of key takeaway from, is all the one thing that you would like listeners to take away. So, Michelle, I'm going to put you on the spot. I'm coming to you first.

Michelle [00:49:14]:

I think, really, see it as something empowering. See it that you have control of what you would like to happen in your life. If you can get that money wife who can sit and talk to you, you know, make you think about things slightly differently that's great. But yes it has its downsides but it also has huge upsides.

Julie [00:49:34]:

Alright. Thank you. Tamzin, what's the one thing that you would like listeners to take away from this episode?

Tamsin [00:49:42]:

I think, I think it's it is a responsibility to look after money yourself, but you can, even if you've never done it before, you can learn how to look after money. You can learn how it works, and having somebody helping you through that is incredibly valuable.

Julie [00:50:06]:

Thank you. Emily?

Emily [00:50:11]:

Yeah. I mean, you've said it beautifully, both of you, but, yeah, just it's that growth mindset. Have a growth mindset and just say I can't do it yet.

Julie [00:50:22]:

Thank you. Right. I've told you halfway through the episode what I wanted you to do, so I'm going to repeat it again. Once you finish this episode, I need you to go away and listen to 2 other episodes actually. The one with Catherine Knowles talking about income protection and the one about emergency funds. I'll put links in the show notes and then go and take some action on it. The action could just be I'm going to go and stash £5 in a separate bank account, and that's the beginning of my emergency fund. Listen to the income protection Money.

Julie [00:50:51]:

Get in touch with Catherine or one of the other advisers afterwards, just chat to Money of us and find out more about her. So yeah. Okay, ladies. Thank you so much. That has been lots of fun getting the gang back together again. Alright. So thank you for that, and thank you for listening. And until next time, please do take care of yourselves.